|
Subject:Hurry! Sale ends May 1st!!!
Posted by: VU-1
Date:4/13/2002 12:16:30 PM
OK, guys. I have some ear candy for you. I recently ran across the Crane Song Analog Dither CD & decided I needed to give it a shot. I added it to a few songs that I was mastering to see how it would affect the sound. The results I found were quite amazing. The mixes I was working on sounded good to me before, but there seemed to be something missing. That something was depth & transparency. I was absolutely shocked at how much better they sounded after adding the dither. I had been using a dither plug-in at the end of the chain, but quickly deleted it after testing the CS dither CD. When I muted the dither track, the sound went flat (2-dimensional). With the dither track ON, the mix had depth & transparency. With the help of a friend, I have prepared a little sample for everyone to hear. To listen for yourself, go to http://www.mikeonmars.com/p.asp?page=89 Each clip is about 20-30 sec long. They are .wav files at 44.1/16 - I wanted to keep the fidelity as good as possible so the effect can be heard. A few of the files are a little large to download quickly, so I chopped them in half (part A & part B). For best results, you will need to import the files into your DAW & paste them back together. There is a little bit of info about each clip preceeding it's link. I know this will be hard, but please try to ignore the out of tune guitar on test #2 (hey, I didn't record it, I only mastered it!). Incidentally, I did track, mix and master the clip on test #3 - hope you like it! Have a good time listening and let me know what you think about it!! Jeff Lowes On-Track Recording |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/13/2002 1:13:57 PM
Sorry, there is a temporary problem with the web page. We will fix it and let you know when its ready. JL OTR |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/13/2002 3:20:02 PM
Ok, we're back up & running. Go check it out! JL OTR |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: beetlefan
Date:4/14/2002 3:54:14 AM
I would never use dither on a 16-bit file but one should ALWAYS use dither when converting down to 16-bit from anything higher. I supose the reason your non-dithered track sounded flat was because of the low-level distortion you get if only simple truncation is used. With dither, which is actually analog noise, you get randomly added noise to the bit word to make the bit loss more even. This preserves some the dynamic range. The tradeoff? more noise, but it is more desierable than no dither. Now, to tame the dither noise, we can use noise shaping. This doesn't remove the noise or reduce it, but it moves it around in certain ways so the noise does not fall into the frequency rabge most sensitive to the ear or where it will not unduly harm the music. Not only can you choose the amount of dither in most quality editors, you can configure the type of noise shaping as well. All of this goest to why one shouldn't really process a 16-bit file. In order to reduce the distortion that occurs when saving a 16-bit file, the software should dither it. But what happens when this is done is that the dither noise builds with every save and process, and results in a file that sounds veiled. Keep processing and saving that file and you can wind up with a lifeless sound with digital distortion and noise. That is why you should convert a 16-bit file to 24 or 32-bit before any work. Of course, if all you want to do is a bit of simple edits or fades to a 16-bit file you can get away with it. But you still risk sound degredation. |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:4/14/2002 12:29:19 PM
The content of this message was deleted by the owner. |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/14/2002 7:37:43 PM
>>So what is this "Crane Song dither CD"...is it a plugin?<< No, it is NOT a plug-in. It is a Redbook CD with dither noise on it as audio. >>Where can I download this or get my hands on it?<< It is not downloadable (to my knowledge). It is a product for sale by Crane Song. Look it up on their web site. www.CraneSong.com JL OTR Hey, Beetle.......did you listen to the samples? |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: nlamartina
Date:4/14/2002 7:54:54 PM
Jeff, I agree with Brian. You've piqued my interest, but would it be possible (within the parameters of fair use) to post a snippet of this CD on your page so we can try it with our own stuff to make sure it's not voodoo? I'm not as familiar with the instruments in your mix, so all I really hear right now is a little bit more presence with the electric guitar in the center (but given your excitement, I'm sure there's more there than I'm hearing). Also, wouldn't it be possible to maybe make this into a plugin using Acoustic Mirror by using the dither sample as a WAV format impulse? Couple thoughts, Nick LaMartina |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: dbarry
Date:4/14/2002 8:24:24 PM
Sorry I don't get it. This is a CD of noise that we are supposed to add to our mix to get "transparency"? I feel so stupid. Can anyone help me. Since I am an electrical engineer, a few equations would be helpful. |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:4/14/2002 9:02:36 PM
The content of this message was deleted by the owner. |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/14/2002 9:31:14 PM
>>You've piqued my interest, but would it be possible (within the parameters of fair use) to post a snippet of this CD on your page so we can try it with our own stuff to make sure it's not voodoo?<< Nick - I'm sure you can understand that I really don't feel I'm at liberty to post someone else's product out there for everyone to demo or use. I suggest that you contact Crane Song directly and express your interest to them. The purpose of my posting the test was so that everyone could hear for themselves, in a real world application, that there really is a difference just from adding this dither noise to a mix. No voodoo here. As I stated on the web page, all I did was follow Crane Song's directions & mix the noise in with my audio at the prescribed level. You heard the results. >>I'm not as familiar with the instruments in your mix, so all I really hear right now is a little bit more presence with the electric guitar in the center (but given your excitement, I'm sure there's more there than I'm hearing).<< The biggest difference is in the background. In test #1, the hi-hat sounds like its splattering against a wall with the dither OFF. With it ON, it sounds like there is room behind the mix for the hat. Also, I notice that individual instruments (including vocals) seem to pop out a little bit more and have more of a space of their own in the mix. I recommend that everyone visit www.recording.org and read some of the dithering posts in the "Mastering" section. There is some very good info there from some very knowledgeable pros. JL OTR |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: beetlefan
Date:4/15/2002 3:53:55 AM
"Hey, Beetle.......did you listen to the samples?" Not yet, but I don't need to! You can do the same things in Cool Edit and Sound Forge with the dither functions. Dither really does help maintain dynamic range. Since dither is nothing more than randomly added analog white noise, it should pretty much mimic analog tape noise in it's effect in a way. Some people like the warmth and depth analog tape seems to add to music. Low level digital graininess will make your music seem cold and flat. |
|
Subject:RE: Crane Song dither CD test
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/15/2002 10:21:42 AM
>>"Hey, Beetle.......did you listen to the samples?" Not yet, but I don't need to! You can do the same things in Cool Edit and Sound Forge with the dither functions.<< No, you can't! I tried it. The Crane Song dither CD contains the same dither that is used in their high-end mastering gear (HEDD 192, Spider). As I stated in my original post, I was using a DX dither plug-in at the end of my processing chain but quickly deleted it after hearing what the CS dither did for my audio. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!!! JL OTR |
|
Subject:If you have to use this
Reply by: JoeD
Date:4/17/2002 6:48:31 AM
If any one of you have to use this inane "crane song cd" then could you email me?...I have land in Florida that's a screaming good deal. Boot the troll. JoeD |
|
Subject:RE: A little treat for you
Reply by: vanblah
Date:4/19/2002 10:39:30 AM
I just got the CD in the mail. I am going to try it on a few songs this weekend. I will report what I find afterward. For $30 I figured it was worth the experiment. Doug |
|
Subject:RE: A little treat for you
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/19/2002 12:13:07 PM
I have found that it doesn't work for EVERY song, but for what it does for the tunes it DOES work for, it is an invaluable tool to have laying around. JL OTR |
|
Subject:RE: A little treat for you
Reply by: VU-1
Date:4/28/2002 10:07:18 PM
There's no sale, really. I just wanted to get your attention. However, anybody who still wants to check out the Crane Song Analog Dither CD test better do it now!!! The clips will be removed from the web site this Wednesday (May 1st)! http://www.mikeonmars.com/p.asp?page=89 JL OTR |
|
Subject:RE: A little treat for you
Reply by: Spirit
Date:4/30/2002 5:32:20 AM
I hate trickery. |