Does this device "create" fake timecode as analog footage is coming in?

Are you experiencing dropped frames?

Do you have any other DV devices to test with?

As far as time code goes, while capturing video, Vegas sees my time code as read from the cameras counter. And no, I have no other device to test with. But I did have perfect captures with 3.0 even though it complained of dropped frames. It reported as many dropped frames as it captured. It does this with 3.0a as well.

> Does this device "create" fake timecode as analog footage is coming in?

Don't know for sure, but I suspect that it does.

> Are you experiencing dropped frames?

While capturing, the dropped frames count remains at 0. When I stop the capture, the application reports that there were dropped frames. I suspect, however, that this report is bogus, as it was in VV3.0.

> Do you have any other DV devices to test with?

Yes, I have a DV camera, and captures from that are fine in both 3.0 and 3.0a

I'll just reiterate what I said in my original message: capturing from the Dazzle device works perfectly with VV3.0, so one of the changes introduced in 3.0a has broken it.

Tony

This is a tought one...we've made several important fixes/changes in 3.0a to improve timecode reading, which has made dramatic improvements for the overwhelming number of DV devices that exist (feedback from our tech support, beta testers, and on the Creative Cow forum) and allow for frame accurate Batch Capturing.

Because of this improvement, devices like the Dazzle, which don't "act" like other DV devices and DV converters (Sony/Canopus), may have some troubles. The problem for the Dazzle is that it creates timecode when it shouldn't as other DV converters won't fill in the timecode or make it zero.

You might want to check with Dazzle tech support and get a reason why they do this, since it really provides no benefit since analog footage doesn't really have a sense of timecode, but rather a time counter that can be reset at any point on an analog device.

An unrecommended option (which prevents you from getting any of the other changes/fixes with Video Capture 3.0a) is to uninstall Vegas, then install Vegas 3.0, save a copy of the Vidcap30.exe, then install Vegas 3.0a, and then copy the Vidcap30.exe over the 3.0a version. However, by doing this all bets are off for tech support.

Also, when using the Dazzle do you disable DV device control in the General Preferences?

Thanks!

> You might want to check with Dazzle tech support and get a reason why they do
> this, since it really provides no benefit since analog footage doesn't really have
> a sense of timecode, but rather a time counter that can be reset at any point on
> an analog device.

And you might want to check with your developers and get a reason why they've included an "improvement" which breaks capture from a class of devices that are used by a large number of your customers :-)

> An unrecommended option (which prevents you from getting any of the other
> changes/fixes with Video Capture 3.0a) is to uninstall Vegas, then install Vegas
> 3.0, save a copy of the Vidcap30.exe, then install Vegas 3.0a, and then copy the
> Vidcap30.exe over the 3.0a version. However, by doing this all bets are off for
> tech support.

I'll try that & see what happens when I have the time.

In the meantime, how about including an option in the capture function that allows the user to choose between 3.0 and 3.0a behaviour?

> Also, when using the Dazzle do you disable DV device control in the General
> Preferences?

Yes.

Tony

Tony, an harsh reply to a considerative helper won't get you much further ...
SoFo is calling your attention to a design flaw in *your* equipment (if it is not an advantage, it's a flaw or a flop). I wonder that SoFo seems to know your Dazzle better than you do.
The big Dazzle user base does not justify anything, much less your arrogance.
And I suspect that, behind your diatribe, you are *not* going to contact Dazzle ...
And SoFo gave you an working solution ...
So be it.

I'm sorry if you (or anybody else) found my reply arrogant or whatever, because it wasn't intended that way; if it caused offence, I apologise.

However, I do find it incredibly frustrating that the 3.0a upgrade has broken a significant part of Vegas's functionality, particularly as it was functionality that wasn't (as far as I am concerned) deficient in the first place.

And if it affects not just the Dazzle device, but all similar devices (which is my, possibly incorrect, inference from SoFo's post), then I'm sure that I'm not going to be the only user who is somewhat less than enthusiastic about the change.

Tony

"And you might want to check with your developers and get a reason why they've included an "improvement" which breaks capture from a class of devices that are used by a large number of your customers :-)"

-You're as directly connected as can be <g> I already indicated that no other device works like the Dazzle, period. That's why I gave the options of the Sony and Canopus converters which function properly. It's very similar if you put a DV camera in Camera mode and capture from the lens, the timecode doesn't change as it's a live feed, same for your analog to DV case. Couldn't really say how many Dazzle's are out there, as you and jyarb are the only ones providing feedback...what I can say it that we've had a very large number of users with timecode problems that was preventing Batch Capture, a very important feature going forward, from working. Properly fixing that has exposed more problems that already existed with the Dazzle.

"However, I do find it incredibly frustrating that the 3.0a upgrade has broken a significant part of Vegas's functionality, particularly as it was functionality that wasn't (as far as I am concerned) deficient in the first place."

-The hardware was already deficient with 3.0 in that it indicated as many dropped frames as captured frames when none were probably dropped...really...I'd like to know from the guys at Dazzle why they're creating fake timecode...

"And if it affects not just the Dazzle device, but all similar devices (which is my, possibly incorrect, inference from SoFo's post), then I'm sure that I'm not going to be the only user who is somewhat less than enthusiastic about the change."

-You're one of two so far <g> This is really Dazzle specific. I can't say for sure that we won't revisit this issue, but you have the install hack to fall back on if need be.

Thanks!

I am the second user that deef was talking about. I have went back to 3.0 but I have also tried a few things. First I have disconnected my LANC control to the camera (Sony TRV-85) I still get this fake time code, but now it starts at 0:00:00;00 instead of the counter on the camera so the Dazzle is sending something. I have also E-Mailed the support staff about this "fake" code for a way of turning this feature off and a reason behind it. I have another Dazzle product the DVC2 which is the reason I almost did not buy the DVBridge, but at the time I did not know of any other solutions. From my experience their support is almost non existant so I may never gat any responce and I have had no luck in finding any sort of online forum such as this. If their are any other suckers I mean owners of the DVBridge I would love to hear any test problems or work arounds you may have found, As well as the Canopus or Sony models.

Thanks!!

when you had the lanc control hooked up what timecode would it give? Did you have device control?

Was it reading the timer set on the device?

What happens if you reset the device timer (cause there's no timecode on the footage)?

I guess my question also is did you also disable DV device control, too?

to tonysawford:
Tony, no hard feelings. I know how frustrating it is to have *our* things left behind in the rolling train of progress ;-D . I have my own lot (Betamax, CD-I, 2.8MB diskette drives, magneto-optical drives, Pinnacle MP-10, 3DFx, Elsa motherboards, CD-R (not RW) recorders, ...).
Meanwhile, the productive, explanatory, dialogue has resumed. I hope that everybody benefits from it.

"when you had the lanc control hooked up what timecode would it give? Did you have device control?"

-- It gave me the time code of the camera lcd, and yes I have full camera controll (frame accurate as far as i can tell) no batch capture.

"Was it reading the timer set on the device?"

-- Yes, if by device you mean camera

"What happens if you reset the device timer (cause there's no timecode on the footage)?"

-- during capture if I unplug the LANC connector the time code continues like nothing happend. If I stop capture and restart (with LANC still unplugged) the time code starts at 00:00:00;00. If i press counter reset during capture the counter continues in vegas as if nothing happens, the lcd on my camera resets to 00:00:00;00 and continues from there. If I then stop capture and restart the time code will change to the new lcd time.

"I guess my question also is did you also disable DV device control, too?"

-- Yes I have tried either way and there is no difference.

After doing considerable testing, here's a *potential* workaround I've come up with for using the Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge with 3.0a. I tested under Win98SE, Win2k, and WinXP.

Please let us know if this works or not. Thanks in advance!!

***Steps to improve Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge A/V capture performance and avoid phantom dropped frames problem (after testing various scenarios), by getting timecode to stop updating:
=> NOTE this will only work if you're NOT using the LANC adapter.
1) Power down Dazzle and disconnect DV cable from PC
2) Ensure the Dazzle's LANC connector is NOT connected to anything
3) Ensure DV device control is enabled in Video Capture
4) Power up the Dazzle, set to "A to D" mode, and then connect DV cable to PC
5) Ensure that converted DV stream is previewing properly on Video Capture's Capture tab (by manually controlling analog source) and that timecode is updating (albeit incorrectly)
=> the play transport button should be toggled down (if not then hit Play)
6) Hit the pause transport button, this should stop the timecode from updating (audio seems to stop also), while the video continues to be delivered
7) Disable DV device control
8) Now the converted DV stream should be ok, while the timecode doesn't update
9) To get the timecode to 00:00:00;00, cycle through the "modes" until back to "A to D" mode
10) Capture footage => the dropped frame count during capture and in the post capture dlg should now be 0.

**Switching the Dazzle "mode", "Reconnect to current device" from Video Capture, and disconnecting the DV connection from the Dazzle to the computer do not seem to affect it once it's setup this way.
**However, if you do connect the LANC adapter, or cycle the power on the Dazzle, you'll need to run through these steps again to get the timecode from updating.

Thanks!

Deef, i'm not a dazzle user, but let me be the first to say THANK YOU! for all that effort. *whew* I sure hope that works well for people.

G'day Deef,

If it's helpful, I have also experienced capture problems with an analog camera using the Canopus ADVC-100 converter.

Using version 3.0, the actual capture screen reports 0 dropped frames, but the post-capture report identifies hundreds. However, I was told on the forum that this is a bug and probably no frames were dropped.

Using version 3.0a, the same process occurs (0 dropped frames reported during capture, hundreds reported afterwards). However, problems occur more frequently in capturing video. For example, there may be a 10-frame original sequence of a woman walking. After capture, the playback within VV3 3.0a shows that the woman has a one-frame movement, then about 100 frames of frozen motion and no sound, then another frame of movement, another 100 frames of frozen movement, etc. The only blips of sound occurs during the one-frame movements.

These problems appear to be once-offs (i.e., they are not always duplicated when the capture is repeated). However, they appear to occur more frequently following the installation of version 3.0a.

I am in the IT industry and understand the difficulties with supporting multiple platforms using a single product. My primary reason for posting this message is to let you know that new capture problems appear to have been introduced for the Canopus converter as well (i.e., not just the Dazzle).

VV3 is an excellent product and I enjoy using it very much. So this message isn't intended to be a whinge as much as it's intended to alert you that the capture problems aren't restricted to a single converter type.

Regards,
Doug

Hey, thanks a bunch!

I'll check that out, too. I know we did some testing on that prior to 3.0a being released.

Do you also see timecode being updated from this device when capturing with and without the LANC connected?

The Sony DA2 doesn't update the timecode with and without the LANC connected and doesn't exhibit this problem.

Thanks again!

After retesting with the Canopus ADVC-100 on WinXP and Win98SE, I wasn't able to repro the problem on this device. There is no LANC adapter on this DV converter, so that's a non-issue.

Interesting to note that there is timecode that is getting updated in the DV stream, since the start timecodes are updating with each capture, however the UI display always reports 00:00:00;00. So it's possible that some of these devices aren't updating the timecode properly in the DV stream, which would cause dbuckser's issue.

Deef,

Thank you for your assistance. I followed your directions and I now can capture in 3.0a just fine. Again Thank you.

G'day Deef,

Thanks for the information. My apologies for not logging in recently and responding to your message.

Is there anything which I can do to increase the performance of the timecode? If it is a possible cause of the problem, I'm afraid that I'm not technical enough to be able to identify a solution.

Unfortunately, the problem is not able to be reproduced on demand. Sometimes it happens, most of the time it doesn't. From my development days, these are the most difficult bugs to identify and solve.

Do you think that using a combination of ADVC-100 and an analog camera is a suitable solution? I understand that VV3 works very reliably with a capture directly from a digital camera, so maybe using the Canopus converter isn't the best solution right now.

Thanks again for your help. I enjoy using VV3 immensely and am grateful for your feedback.

Regards,
Doug

I'm also getting the stuttering video/audio when using a Canopus ADVC-100. It does seem intermittent but the symptoms are as reported by dbuckser. It only seems to affect captures of more than 10 mins or so. I'm going to do more tests over the next few days but any suggestion welcome on different settings.

"I'm also getting the stuttering video/audio when using a Canopus ADVC-100. It does seem intermittent but the symptoms are as reported by dbuckser. It only seems to affect captures of more than 10 mins or so..."

Me too. However I see no relation to the length of the capture. Usually I can't get the problem to repeat to try and track it down. However I have one tape ('store bought' and it dosen't have the macrovision thing) that will do it every time and in the same places. What puzzles me is that the tape is very high quality and has no 'problems' that I can hear or see ( or maybe the canopus dosent like Frank Zappa).:-)