Subject:SF 6 Annoyances

Posted by: jgourd

Date:4/6/2002 1:07:03 PM

Where is the option to operate directly on the file?

Every time I save a file it rebuilds the peaks, even when the only change I made was to add a region. This hurts when you are marking tracks on a 3 set live concert that is 2 hours 30 minutes long.

Where is my cut list? I do not see a way to "treat playlist as a cutlist".

Is CD Architect support dead forever?

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: CDM

Date:4/6/2002 1:43:22 PM

good questions: where IS the Play as Cutlist? That was a GREAT feature.
as for Direct mode - there isn't one anymore. But, I was told that simple things like adding regions and markers to a file (metadata stuff) would not result in a resaving of the file.

Comments from SF?

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: beetlefan

Date:4/6/2002 10:27:24 PM

I always questioned the rationale for even having the direct mode in 5.0. Working in 16-bit files without dithering the results causes sound degredation. Isn't quality sound the whole purpose of internal sampling being 32 or 64-bit?

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/7/2002 10:47:35 AM

I just finished recording & editing this morning's worship service with Sound Forge 6 Beta. It went very well and was much faster! The nearly instant edits made it a joy to cut out all the little coughs & sneezes. The graphic dynamics function also seems improved and more reliable.

I did encounter one annoyance though (well, actually 18, since i split the recording into 18 tracks). I set markers while i was recording as usual, adjusted the positions, converted regions to markers, then extracted regions to get the separate tracks for the CD. The bug that occurred is that a small portion of each region would end up at the end of the previous track. I had to open up each file, cut that part out, and then paste it back into the beginning of the next file. The amount varied between about 1/10 second up to nearly 2 full seconds.

There were several display glitches ... deleted peaks appearing on the screen even though they weren't there when that section was played, empty space showing at the end of the file when it really wasn't there, etc. The waveform display also looked much blockier and cruder than previous versions. Maybe this was done to speed up the display? It didn't affect the editing process, but it did make it look like i was editing an 8 bit file instead of 16 bits.

Overall though, it was a good improvement.

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/7/2002 3:53:03 PM

JGourd,

I haven't installed it yet, but I don't imagine you'd see the "direct open" option anymore since directly editing a file is destructive editing. Sound Forge 6 is non-destructive, thus rendering that old option useless.

Hope this helps,
Nick LaMartina

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:4/7/2002 6:02:01 PM

I would just like to be able to install it....am I asking for a lot here? Can't get it to install, tells me I need IE 4.0, when I already have IE 5.0 installed on my system. win98 SE.

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/7/2002 9:15:02 PM

Brian,

Did you try a quiet installation? According to Dan, if you use the Q parameter (eg. forgesetup.exe /q ) it will skip the IE detection and go strait to installation.

Hope this helps,
Nick LaMartina

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: cjc1103

Date:4/8/2002 6:33:21 PM

The question here should be: Why is SF6.0 checking your IE version? IE's not required for the program to run. And the user can register/activate over the phone if need be.

Chris

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/8/2002 9:25:40 PM

But IE is required to view the help file, since it's compiled as HTML. Therefore, checking the IE version is a good thing. Otherwise, people would come in here complaining about the help file not working.

Regards,
Nick LaMartina

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: VU-1

Date:4/9/2002 12:13:02 AM

Posted earlier:

"Where is my cut list? I do not see a way to "treat playlist as a cutlist"."
-and-
"good questions: where IS the Play as Cutlist? That was a GREAT feature."

Ummmmmmm,
Sound Forge 6.0 is now a NON-DESTRUCTIVE editor. What do you need 'play as cutlist' for? That was a "let's try to make Sound Forge 4.0 try to act like a non-destructive editor" feature. Since SF6.0 is now a true N/D editor (WAY TO GO SONIC FOUNDRY!!!!! I knew you could do it!), there is no need for a cutlist. If you want to preview a cut, the CTRL-K feature is still working - just tried it (I wish they would put that into Vegas - hint, hint).

If I elect to go from SF4.5 to SF6.0, I'm sure I will lose the ability to use 4.5, so I will sorely miss CDA. I have VV3 but I can't get the CD burning feature to work - at all.

I also think that 6.0 could benefit from a volume envelope as was in CDA and is in all other SF programs.

JL
OTR

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: VU-1

Date:4/9/2002 12:33:40 AM

Hey,

What happened to the multiple undo/redo list? I've been used to the Alt8 windows in 4.5, but have really come to like the little drop down boxes next to the undo & redo buttons on the toolbar in Vegas. 6.0 makes me undo things one at a time.

One other thing - in the high-magnification views (2:1 - 24:1), the pencil tool is a little quirky. It doesn't always redraw in the same place that I do.

JL
OTR

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:4/9/2002 12:45:10 AM

I will sorely miss CDA...
The only gripe that I really have with this version is the lack of inclusion of CDA to it. What the hell is so special with VV3 that it has to be the beginning and the end of my work. I recently finished a 6 song demo for a client and went the route of burning a cd with SF5 instead of going back into VV3 and doing it. STUPID I know but I was lazy and I felt that by the time I opened VV3 and setup the cd playlist and yadda yadda I would have been done by then. I remember reading that sofo was considering including it in the next version SF. I'm kind of dissappointed that they decided in not doing it.
By no means do I think this is a bad all around upgrade though...I've experimented with it for a bit and was loving every minute of it...freakin' quick! I'll definitely be sending all my info on any bugs that I encounter along the way. Still feel that cda should have been added so that my workflow would be more in one direction [my chosen direction] but I'll learn to deal.

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: CDM

Date:4/9/2002 10:03:55 AM

to answer OTR's question about the cutlist:
Yes, I know there is non-destructive editing now and that IS great, and FAST. Thank you SF!. My gripe with not having the cutlist is two-fold. One is that I don't think a feature that many people might have gotten used to using daily should be taken away just because it was a "workaround" for something that wasn't there before. And second, it wasn't only a workaround. Just because it has non-destructive editing now, doesn't mean I can quickly eliminate a phrase in front of a client, play as cutlist, adjust the edges, remove another phrase or 10 phrases and then decide to just eliminate 3 phrases without undoing all my non-destructive edits and starting over. See what I mean? I can literally generate a CUTLIST and change it however I want. And what if I want to save the file and work on it later? I would have to save all of my non-destructive cuts which would suddenly become....destructive. It was just really nice and handy, that's all. I'm not saying I use it everyday, but I used it some and it wasn't necessarily in place of making a cut.


and, you can see your undos by opening the Undo view. I liked the drop down list in Vegas too and I'd love to see that but you can very easily just dock your undo view at the bottom (or anywhere) and choose from which edit you want to undo at anytime.

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: VU-1

Date:4/9/2002 10:34:33 AM

Posted earlier:

"I can quickly eliminate a phrase in front of a client, play as cutlist, adjust the edges, remove another phrase or 10 phrases and then decide to just eliminate 3 phrases without undoing all my non-destructive edits and starting over."

OK Charlesdem, yes I see your point. I have never actually tried to use it that way - I have never actually had a need to use it that way either. 99 times out of 100 I don't move on to a new edit 'til I'm completely satisfied with the one I'm working on.

If you're unsure of some edits that you are making, maybe you should try using Vegas for these. In Vegas, an edit isn't permanent until its rendered. Actually, you can still go back to the Veg. project file & still be able to change what you did - you will just have to re-render the file again.

In all truth, I have abandoned using Sound Forge to do any editing (except for using the pencil tool occasionally) and have been doing all of my editing in Vegas. It's been so much faster and very much more flexible with all the event shifting on the time line, graphic fade, crossfade, multitrack/bussing, volume envelope, etc., etc., etc. capabilities. There are MANY cases where I need to do a crossfade and/or a quick volume dip or something to make a seemless edit - none of which can be done with ease in Sound Forge - even SF6.0, sad to say :(. Before I got Vegas, I used to do all my editing in Sound Forge. As far as editing dance routines - never again. Vegas takes that one hands down.

JL
OTR

Subject:RE: SF 6 Annoyances

Reply by: CDM

Date:4/9/2002 10:49:58 AM

Jeff -
I'm totally with you. I'm playing Devils' Advocate. I use Vegas for absolutely everything for a good 5 to 6 hours a day. I even use it for mastering (until now - now that the chainer is really a lot friendlier, I might go to forge for this again). I use it all the way through the cd burning phase. I haven't used the curlist feature in a while but I am thinking of the person who hasn't plunked down the $ for Vegas. I do use Sound Forge to record v/o, though, and I would occasionally use the cutlist right after recording to quickly grab a few coughs, etc. and cut them from playback to give my client a "rough edit" to listen to. I, also, mostly use Sound Forge only for things like Reverse, pencil tool , NR, and resampling.