|
Subject:Wave Hammer stories wanted
Posted by: MECressey
Date:3/4/2002 2:57:53 PM
I'm curious about "real" stories using Wave Hammer as mastering tool. If I look at a .wav file from a comercial CD & one that I create, the difference is striking, i.e., the commercial one is highly compressed & limited and sounds loud (and good) when playing. I've just started experiementing w/ Wave Hammer & would like to know how others use the tool. Thanks. Mike |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/4/2002 10:30:34 PM
I've tried it on a remix I did of Madonna's "Music" and liked the results quite a bit. Just using Wave Hammer on your audio won't exactly turn it into gold. The project should at least be properly mixed a bit. On top of that, the quality of the recording itself comes into play. (For instance, 24-bit vs. 16-bit.) Iacobus |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: VU-1
Date:3/4/2002 10:32:42 PM
I don't. I use the PSP Vintage Warmer. Blows the WH COMPLETELY out of the water. Jeff Lowes On-Track Recording PS. There is more to creating this difference than just compressing a mix. The additional step is called Mastering. |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: MECressey
Date:3/5/2002 10:56:18 AM
I agree, but at the moment I'm just trying to get the wave signature similiar to a comercial CD. You pay $3000 - $5000 for a professional to master your CD - I seriously doubt if one 1 piece of software can do that. Assume for this discussion that the mix is good. I'm interesting in getting a little more technical information from you all, i.e., specific settings that you used or tricks that you tried. I'm interested in using Sound Forge 5.0 which is why I posted to this site, not some other audio site. Thanks. Mike |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: Buckskin
Date:3/5/2002 12:09:57 PM
Get waves gold, if you want it to sound professional. |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:3/5/2002 1:50:34 PM
Go to www.izotope.com. I use this product for my mastering jobs and I feel its an amazing product! They even give you as a free pdf download a "Mastering Guide" that I've read end to end. Plus its not just a final mastering product...you could turn off any of the other plugins in the chain to utililze their eq/multiband compressor/etc...in your audio track/busses. Higher cpu usage but results are great. I own the PSP Vintage Warmer and agree fully that its that damn good. In terms of tips for mastering that guide is as good of a place as any to start. Post back any info on the type of song you are trying to master and we'll see what ideas we could brainstorm. Rock/pop/country/etc...And any probs that you are having. I would like to offer my services to anyone that would like to mail me there material for me to put my finishing touches to it. This of course would cost you nothing other than the shipping cost of the cd. Don't forget to copyright the songs also [duh I know]. I won't lie to you and say I'm pro at this[no one is chasing me with pitch forks either!] but I'm getting better each time and the feedback has been good so far. If you like it give me credit, if not well I owe you [the price of] a cup of coffee :) . Eddie Radovic- A.F.U. STUDIOS Email: shtunot@nyc.rr.com Have a great day...Later. |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: MECressey
Date:3/6/2002 12:31:23 PM
Thanks to all who have replied. I guess I gotta try Vintage Warmer. Mike |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: VU-1
Date:3/6/2002 9:35:31 PM
I can offer this tip: LISTEN carefully to some REALLY GOOD commercial CDs and run an FFT graph on one or more cuts that are similar to the song(s) that you are working on. You can then use the tools that you have to try to match graphs with that of the comm. tunes. (You really should try out the PSP VW - warning!: it is a complex tool and requires some flight time to get the most out of it!) The learning curve is figuring out what tools to use and in what way to use them. There is NO hard & fast rule or magic formula for mastering. You have to treat each song individually and be sensitive as to what makes that song sound its best (be the most musical). The MOST important thing is to USE YOUR EARS. If you have any need for mastering services, you can e-mail me directly at OnTrackRecording@sbcglobal.net. Jeff Lowes On-Track Recording |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: MECressey
Date:3/7/2002 4:14:44 PM
OK - I can make this discussion simpler. I want my CDs to sound as "good" as the Wallflowers CDs or Mark Knopfler's "Golden Heart" CD, i.e., similar volume, upfront vocals, clear & distinct instrument tracks. I've looked at several Wallflower tracks & they all have similiar characteristics, a high amount of compression - full sound between 6dB - 6dB with peaks clipped at or near 0dB. I haven't look at the spectrum yet - perhaps I should. The paper from Isotope was very helpful. It confirms some notations I already had. Mike |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: rraud
Date:3/7/2002 8:07:57 PM
If you want your CDs to sound as "good" as the Wallflowers CDs or Mark Knopfler's "Golden Heart" CD, i.e., similar volume, upfront vocals, clear & distinct instrument tracks... You will need their recording expertise and level of talent, their engineers, their producers and their budgets. Sorry, but that's the way things are. |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: dbarry
Date:3/7/2002 10:40:32 PM
So anyway in addition to the useful information given.... IMHO Using SoundForge make sure you remove DC and subsonics (<20 Hz). For that punchy FM sound, Normalize RMS to say -6 db for a very loud sound that cuts through road noise. Be sure to select compress and not clip. For more classic sound with more dynamics try -12db. Play your test CD in the environment that you are considering, i.e., in the car, in the dorm room etc. |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: MECressey
Date:3/8/2002 10:51:21 AM
Now this was really helpful?!?! What you state is obvious & everyone realizes that. I wouldn't be posting messages here if I had a recording contract w/ Interscope records now would I? My recordings are clean, my songs are good (so say others), my production is OK, and my budget, well, it's a poor man's one, but I am trying to do the best I can with these tools which is why I'm posting messages here in the 1st place!!! Thanks for nothing. Mike |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: musicdog
Date:3/8/2002 9:50:15 PM
MECressey, Don't fret over rraud's comments. I once did a demo recording for a band on 4 track tape. The band thought they could do better at a 16 track "so called" pro studio. A week later they came back to me with the crappiest sounding demo you could imagine done by the pro 16 track studio. They decided to use our original 4 track demo. They got the record deal..Maybe you have heard of them. They are "Social Distortion" on the Sony label. You can do great things with limited equipment, you just have to know how to use what you have and possess a good pair of ears. musicdog |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/9/2002 1:17:44 PM
Amen. Iacobus |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:3/10/2002 1:09:12 AM
rraud needs to go out and buy a clue, maybe that's how things where 10 years ago, but now with the advances in technology with hard disk editors and afordable external gear, you can get pro results without having a pro budget. I started learning on a $400,000 SSL console with Tons of Lexicon gear to match. My home recording studio now has more flexibility and sound quality than all of that and probably costs under $20,000. Of course you still need to know how to work the equipment properly, but you can easily get Pro results in a home basement on a limited budget. |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: rraud
Date:3/10/2002 8:06:52 PM
Sorry Mike, Some things just set me off. In one studio I worked at, untalented NJ rich-kids would come in and ask why I can't make them sound like their rock star idols. I would even set up their amps and tune their instruments, but they just couln't play for shit. I must of been having a flash-back. Sometimes I don't think before talking or typing. Please accept my appology for not being constructive. Red is right about the old and new gear. Rick |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: musicdog
Date:3/10/2002 10:44:46 PM
rraud, I worked with bands like that.... Their ego was much greater that their talent... Especially the "big hair" bands of the 80's. musicdog |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: MECressey
Date:3/11/2002 1:00:17 PM
I think what I'm looking for is a white paper on how to use Sound Forge to do a complete mastering job. Sonic Foundry's & Garrigus's book are helpful but they are more reference than "how to". I'd like to see a good paper on how to take a mix through all the steps involved in completing a "good" final product. Thanks again. Mike |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: dbarry
Date:3/11/2002 10:19:31 PM
so anyway, is there any good technical info? or just the usual bunch of bull about what great equipment everyone used to use and how many famous people they mixed for? how about if you really know what you are talking about, say something about eq and compression other than 'just let your ears be your guide' |
|
Subject:RE: Wave Hammer stories wanted
Reply by: musicdog
Date:3/12/2002 12:13:51 AM
Well since every situation dictates a variety of different mastering treatments, I think a generic response is the best you could hope for. Here's some tips I have used. 1. Junk in, junk out.. Record the best signal you can. Clean tracks can always be made "dirty", clean tracks can always be "effected". 2. Record hot but not clipping. You can always lower a track in a mix, but to raise the level of a low level track will introduce noise. 3. EQ each part to sit in it's own space. Bass in the low hrtz., guitars sit in the mids., along with the vocals. high boost adds sizzle. 4. Pan your tracks. I pan most things as if I'm sitting in front of a live band. 5. One of the last steps in mastering is to compress and normalise volume. Be careful with these as you could compress all the life our of your project, or normalise the track to boredom. A tune that flows in volume has movement and feeling. Just generic advise..take it or leave it. musicdog |