RED Dragon Files

cinefilm wrote on 1/18/2016, 1:08 AM
Will sony be supporting RED dragon files any time soon? Specifically with the new color and gamma spaces. I fell in love with vegas and I'm trying to stick to it but for me anyways it is crucial this support is offered. I tried a premiere demo and it was not my cup of tea. All R3D data in Red Cine is lost when importing RED Dragon files.

Comments

Cliff Etzel wrote on 1/18/2016, 1:14 PM
2 options if I"m not mistaken:

1) Try Catalyst

2) Use another NLE that supports R3D files
cinefilm wrote on 1/18/2016, 6:37 PM
Are you sure catalyst supports R3D?
astar wrote on 1/18/2016, 6:40 PM
I guess more info on this would be good, to fully understand the issue.

The Vegas engine is limited to 4096x4906 resolution. Vegas does support R3D natively with format adjustments. So you could work a project with 4096 being the project maximum width. Vegas also supports 32-bit FP full levels into EXR, EXR would be your edit format to retain the information.

You can export EXR from cine-X and then import that image sequence into Vegas. There are no 709 codecs that will retain the information of R3D. Importing EXR and then building HDCAM, cineform, or XDCAM proxies would be the best way to edit that material. There have been plenty of posts on working in ACES in Vegas.

From Cine-X you can also export EXR with zip or other compressions enabled, and Vegas will read those formats.

The 4096x4096 project is going to be the ceiling in Vegas, and Sony will not likely produce another update to Vegas to up this.

cinefilm wrote on 1/18/2016, 9:39 PM
Thanks for the reply. I did notice the R3D properties window but it does not list the new dragon color and gamma modes.

I like the workaround, too bad it was not better supported, I found vegas to be an amazing and intuitive program, I got it free with a sony camera purchase. The audio tools are incomparable and too bad about the maximum pixel resolution.

I sincerely hope sony reconsiders and updates it.
astar wrote on 1/19/2016, 1:13 AM
"R3D properties window but it does not list the new dragon color and gamma modes."

No need for this, as you use Cine-x and export to EXR-ACES, then you are working in ACES. Gammas are handle by Cine-X for the conversion to ACES, which is linear Floating Point. All your information will be contained in the EXR format. R3D is like a truck size of information parked inside a football stadium, when compared to EXR.

Vegas simply handles the editing in a multi application workflow. Working in ACES correctly is not that easy to understand, or to get view transforms right on your display hardware. EXR is also not a smooth playback format, unless you have extreme hardware that can turn the Floating Point information. Hence the proxy editing.

I guess I am not following the "better supported," argument. Don't expect a REDCODE update from RED or Sony for VP13. An update like that should just be a patch build, but we have only seen XAVC released new. I think Sony has thrown in the towel on VP13, and walked completely new direction.
wjauch wrote on 1/19/2016, 8:31 PM
I reported Red Dragon Files not being supported to Vegas support about 15 months ago. In Oct 2015 I communicated with Michael Bryant, not sure of his exact title but something like head of software marketing Sony USA. He did inform me that as I suspected Sony is not using the current Red SDK, He did put it on the list for the next update but indicated no promises. Might be worth sending him an email to get updated info. IIRC email address is firstname.lastname(at)am.sony.com.
FWIW pre Dragon r3d files in Vegas do reflect changes made in RedCine-X (as long as the .rmd file remains with the r3d file.
I have successfully used RedCine-x to transcode a DNXHD file and used that in Vegas (couldn't figure out how to work all the ACES stuff.
cinefilm wrote on 1/19/2016, 9:56 PM
That's a nice work around but it doesn't account for audio?

I'm not a programmer myself but seeing that vegas pro supports the original red files (pre-dragon), it wouldn't be much to ask for to add the new modes so no transcoding has to be done. Considering i got enticed to buy the camera to get a free copy of vegas pro along with thousands of others, I think at least a patch or an update of vegas pro should be in place.
cinefilm wrote on 1/19/2016, 9:57 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, doing a test with the avid 444 codec (I'm on windows).