What We'd like to see in Acid! -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:What We'd like to see in Acid! Posted by: Petecr Date:2/21/2002 8:22:48 AM Lets use this thread to tell sonic foundry what feature we the customers would like to see and also what will help future versions be on the knife edge of technology. Acid has been the most useful tool I have ever used, but I would like to see the following features added. 1.)Parameter including, Cut off, Attack, Gate, flanger added as an adjustable value like PAN and Volume on individual tracks. 2.)More MIDI interaction, I would like to be able to use sample e.g. stabs instead of Piano. Like a combined MIDI/AUDIO channel emulation quite like a sampler. Sonic Foundry forum admins, can you please give lots of feedback on the pros/cons of having the features we would like. Thanks
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Ted_H Date:2/21/2002 10:08:10 AM Regarding suggestion number one, could you elaborate a bit? If you get Acid Pro, there is a noise gate and a flange effect included. What do you mean by cutoff and attack? Who else has ideas? This thread should be good! Ted
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: vanblah Date:2/21/2002 10:13:19 AM I would like to see the ability to control FX paramaters via envelopes (such as pan and volume). I think that's what Petecr is talking about as well. I don't care about it in Vegas, but in Acid (which is somewhat geared toward dance music) it would be quite cool.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: LOOPSURGEON Date:2/21/2002 11:54:47 AM VSTi VSTi VSTi VSTi VSTi VSTi VSTi softsyth capability I'd like to be able to actually create sounds and beats in ACID. wouldn't everyone? this would mean actual live on the fly effects atc.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: ramone Date:2/21/2002 1:09:31 PM -a mixer page with all the basics (levels, groups, fx sends & returns, etc). the current layout is somewhat clunky. -filter sweep fx -improved midi implementation
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: KaiWen Date:2/21/2002 1:18:27 PM A long time ago I asked the question about just combining both Acid and Vegas into one program. Looks like Sonar is beating them to the punch.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: cyberbeat Date:2/21/2002 2:13:58 PM What I would like to see is better MIDI support with the ability to use DirectX instruments. Also, the ability to quickly select everything on a single track between two markers. Similar to what the time selection tool does, but only for a single track. Perhaps this can already be done, but I haven't found a way to do it with out having to click on each event individually. Even more keyboard support. Every time you add a keyboard shortcut you make the program more accessible to those who are visually impaired who can't use a mouse. You have done a great job so far at providing shortcut keys, but there are still certain things that can't be done with the keyboard. These things include selecting events, adjusting envelope parameters and moving the contents of an event with out moving the event.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Iacobus Date:2/21/2002 2:24:31 PM You can control FX parameters via envelopes, but only in ACID Pro. Iacobus
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Iacobus Date:2/21/2002 2:29:11 PM Click the first event on the track, hold down SHIFT on your keyboard and click on the last event on the track. The beginning and ending event and everything in-between will be selected on the track. Iacobus
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: morphx Date:2/21/2002 2:31:23 PM Yes!!! That would be AWESOME! Imagine applying a pitch shift plugin and then controlling the shift amount through an envelop! Imagine applying a chorus effect and controlling the parameters such as delay, rate and depth through envelopes! That would be AWESOME!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Iacobus Date:2/21/2002 2:32:34 PM Don't forget to submit suggestions via the Product Suggestion form. Iacobus
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: morphx Date:2/21/2002 2:32:57 PM This is a simple one: What about being able to playback loops backwards just the way it’s done in Vegas?
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: vanblah Date:2/21/2002 2:52:21 PM Yes, but you have no envelope control over the parameters of the effect, just how much signal is sent to the FX chain. I would love to see "automated" control over depth of chorus, length of reverb, etc. etc.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: sickboy Date:2/21/2002 6:09:25 PM 1. ASIO support 2. track grouping, ie. being able to select similar tracks and group them in virtual collapsable folders or something. like having all your vocal tracks together, bass drum tracks together etc etc, also with the ability to mute/solo groups or send the entire group to the same bus. when you work with alot of files, it'd be nice to just group a bunch together and minimize them. 3. a pitch envelope sorta like the volume envelope, but controls pitch. this way you could do pitch sweeps :) 4. ability to reverse the audio of an event 5. ability to select more colors for your tracks: like high-contrast colors. when you're working with acid 3 in a dark club this can be really helpful. acid 1.0d even has higher contrasting colors.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: gbat Date:2/21/2002 6:32:29 PM For me just the ability to record direct unlimited tracks, like Vegas.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Erik_Nygaard Date:2/22/2002 5:18:44 AM "A long time ago I asked the question about just combining both Acid and Vegas into one program. Looks like Sonar is beating them to the punch." I hear you, I am using Home Studio 2002 (cut-down Sonar) wich have unlimited midi/audio-tracks, DX-plugins/instruments, looping etc. Still Acid is so easy to work in that I use them both exporting files back and forth.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Petecr Date:2/22/2002 8:43:52 AM 1.)I would like to see the ability to control FX paramaters via envelopes (such as pan and volume). (Thats Exactly what I was trying to say! 2.)Being able to reverse a sample without jumping between SF5 and acid and creating huge acid files! My last Hard House Track hard 38 track!!!!! ARGH mainly due to haveing a reversed track. CUTOFF.)What I mean by cutoff, just like in Halion you can limit filter the frequency only playing e.g. a muffled vocal looped and adjusting the level increases the frequency making it more colourful. The ability to adjust the value of a FX/filter over section of sample via envelope would be a dream come true! 3.) More shortcut keys would also be great, being able to to call up macro's of user created commands. Also shortcuts to preset FX values might be more useful. I would like to point out that at the end of the thread we need to work out exactly what we won't and present it to Sonic Foundry with our results! Peter
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: zendar Date:2/22/2002 7:58:31 PM I second all of sickboys excellent suggestions
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Rockitglider Date:2/23/2002 11:32:56 AM Automation of effects and support for Soft Synths would be cool, And support for recording on more than one track at a time, punch recording. Better Midi control. See ya, Rockit
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/23/2002 12:04:25 PM ReWire! AND DXi/VST, and real multitrack audio and midi support at least at the level of basic Cakewalk products. And we want it SOONER than later.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Beanstudio Date:2/23/2002 12:41:32 PM 1) A track mixer that is layed out in a traditional way as an option. The tiny left to right sliders are way too kooky for a serious mix. I know you can buss everything out and do it that way, but it should be simpler. Anyone find the easiest way? 2) Fader, eq, fx, etc. control with a mixer like 01v, DM24, Behringer digi. 3) At least 8 inputs for recording, I know it's not Vegas, but we should have the option. Jim http://www.beanstudio.com
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: DjXSoundz Date:2/24/2002 3:27:51 PM i think acid is great........but...........maybe something called "remove vocals" they have in goldwave would be useful in acid for remixes. also in acid dj i would like to see some dj-related stuff, u know? like acid dj is just an acid style prog with a dj disc. also sonic foundry people - look at Pro Tools (by digidesign) and look at the things they have. Acid is nice and simple and i like it but if it had more profesional tools like pro tools it may be better.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: pwppch Date:2/25/2002 6:47:56 PM > 1) A track mixer that is layed out in a traditional way as an option. The tiny left to right sliders are way too kooky for a serious mix. I know you can buss everything out and do it that way, but it should be simpler. Anyone find the easiest way? > Define "traditional way". Not sure what you are asking for. Our mixer page is completely scaleable. It sizes to the size you give it. Define "serious mix". Serious for who? I know a lot of very serious user that mix very well with ACID. Simpler how? Simpler compared to what? Peter
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:2/25/2002 8:58:10 PM I'm not sure about the serious mix side of things but in terms of the mixer page...The one thing that got me kind of turned off a while ago was the fact that each track has a volume/pan slider going left to right. If you look at cubase it has the mixer window with all the volume/pan controls plus busses all going vertically. It just a more "traditional" way at looking at the mixer. To tell you the truth I've gotten used to the way it looks now so I'm staying neutral on this one. Either way would be fine to me.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/25/2002 10:51:21 PM I'll tell ya what we'd ALL like to see from Acid--a delivery date on 4.0! All rumors appreciated!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Erik_Nygaard Date:2/26/2002 2:39:16 AM I have no problem with the mixer in Acid, but I would like it to remember the layout per project. That is, I set all my preproduced drumloops to minimize when they are mixed so as not to clutter up the page, but next time I open they are back to default size. So, unless I am missing something...
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: mr_williams Date:3/1/2002 12:57:12 AM i said this already in another thread, but id really like to see the option "reverse" on a sample, similar to the pitching function. i also had the idea about drawing filter or eq movements on a track like the volume or pan feature ;-) but reverse is really a missing feature!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: KaiWen Date:3/1/2002 8:59:43 AM How about hook up rewire so I can use Acid in Nuendo like I do with Reason. That all I want. Regards, Kai Wen
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: danceboysteve Date:3/21/2002 6:21:57 PM Yes!!! Please....PLEASE include track grouping. A higher quality pitch shift algorythm would also be appreciated....one that doesn't add so much "underwater flange" effect.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:3/21/2002 7:42:11 PM There's lot of things that would be nice, but without the ability to step-record and edit MIDI then many users will always have to go to another sequencer package as well as (or instead of) Acid. But I don't think it needs to be full MIDI implementation. Too many sequencer packages try to do everything 100% and this just makes them messy. Sonar 2, Orion, FruityLoops are all reasonably low-level sequencers that try way too hard. They are not VST32, Logic Platinum or ProTools - but they try ! So I think Acid should primarily keep what it's got: simple, fast interface and top quality audio handling. But MIDI ! It must have better MIDI. A simple piano-roll style editing would be enough. Just the ability to "paint in" the notes and apply some simple controller info like filter and amplitude. And a simple quantise. But simple MIDI then leads to the question of softsynths. If you have simple MIDI without DXi support then what use is it ? You could only use it with standalone softsynths and hardware. Fine for things like Reaktor and Pulsar but not for all the hundreds of softsynths. So now you must add DXi support. Now with simple MIDI and DXi instruments you need an automatic bounce-down to audio. But that shouldn't be hard ! I don't think the other parts of Acid need much work. The chopper is a great tool and SoundForge is the acknowledged king of the samplers so no need to fill Acid full of sampling features. The double-click to launch SoundForge from Acid is enough. Perhaps just better packaging could also help: Assume that Acidpro 4 gets MIDI and DXi support. Imagine the top-of-the-line release package: AcidPro, SoundForge (full version), some DXi intrument plugins, loop CDs. Imagine the list of features now! There is no way VST-SX or Sonar 2 bundled samplers and loop tools are going to win against SoundForge ! Likewise Acid is the best audio-looper available. So with MIDI and DXi ..... :) Doesn't it feel nice ? I can SEE AcidPro 4 now. Suddenly AcidPro is top of the pops again !
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: ATP Date:3/23/2002 6:12:54 AM 1) VSTi support (and thus midi/keyboard support as well) <--- this will also mean proper ASIO support as well. 2) Rewire support 3) Real automation for FX if you could implement all this i basically don't need Cubase anymore. :)
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: MacMoney Date:3/24/2002 7:36:50 AM Here is mine in order 1. Stability 2. DX FX automation 3. DXi 4. Better MIDI Seq. Piano roll, but simple 5. ASIO2 and ReWire, these two have to be together Dream List Pitch Envelopes Vegas style HD recording Tempo Envelope Hardware Control i.e. Mackie HUI or JL Cooper (ACID PRO 4.0 only) I think or hope we might see some good stuff in A4 George Ware
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:3/24/2002 2:16:36 PM Dream List Pitch Envelopes Vegas style HD recording Tempo Envelope Hardware Control i.e. Mackie HUI or JL Cooper (ACID PRO 4.0 only) I would like to second the motion of this kicka$$ dreamlist...pitch+tempo envelopes?...why the hell didn't I think of that!!!!!!!!!!! Those would be SICK!!! Definitely rewire support...later.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: tsobczak Date:3/25/2002 11:41:35 AM Ditto -- all great ideas. As a SF stock holder and owner/user of Acid and Vegas, let's not let these awesome products fall behind in their features. As a software developer, I have used and developed many interfaces. Acid/Vegas are by far the most intuitive, easy-to-use, best looking audio interfaces of all the competing products (Sonar, Logic, Cubase, ProTools). I have literally taught people how to be productive in less than 10 min. in each product. I cannot tell you how many die-hard Cakewalk and Cubase users I've talked with would abandon their products if some of their features would be implemented into Acid/Vegas. To that point, I have seen many users abandon Acid/Vegas to hop onto the Sonar bandwagon (primarily b/c of it's added looping features). It seems like a "no brainer" that some of these features must be implemented into the products (or some version thereof) in order to retain or (quite possibly) gain market share (and therefore more development $$). Why the hold up? Is it a marketing/sales strategy? If so, then break off the Vegas product again -- you did it for Vegas Video. How about an "Acid Vegas" product? A high-end product with looping/MULTI-TRACKING/midi implementation/DXI/WDM/etc. You will get some pro users to upgrade, you'll get many Acid Pro Users to upgrade, and you'll still have the lower-end users who will by Acid Music and Acid Pro for it's features. Even as a registered owner of both Acid Pro and Vegas, I would PAY for an upgrade to a wonderful product like this. With a high-end product like this we could give ProTools a run for the money (and perhaps <evil_laugh> take over the world of digital audio </evil_laugh>).
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: StupidRobot Date:3/29/2002 7:26:42 AM I'd like to be able to extract beatmapped segments to individual loops. VSTi/DXi support would be nice too.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: bgc Date:3/29/2002 1:31:59 PM It would be so completely awesome to be able to open ACID projects in Vegas to go from writing/composing to serious recording, mixing. Man that would be great. Combine the export loops function with a translator that puts the ACID mix information in a format that Vegas could open. With 3.0 taking the routing/mixing code from Vegas I'd hope that'd be straightforward.BGC
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: spesimen Date:3/29/2002 1:47:36 PM 1. i'd like a way to make the busses work more logically during multi-file export - right now, if you export each track to it's own file, any busses that are used by -any- track get applied to each track being exported... which kind of defeats the purpose of being able to export them separately.. 2. swing!! let me adjust the grid by swing values and snap to that. also, let me re-quantize the starts+ ends of events to that grid. 3. sub tracks - this isn't a huge deal to me and may complicate things unessecarily, but i often have several takes that i want to use for a particular part in a song - one for the verse, one for chorus, etc. in the end, each of these tracks gets the same levels, effects, etc. being able to combine them into one track or collapse them together visually somehow would be nice. i like the simplicity and elegance of the interface however and this might make it too weird.. 4. let the beatmapper have multiple stretch points like the way they do it in ableton live.. 5. let me cut and slice out segments in the chopper by selecting them on the timeline as well as within the loop. right now the chopper is only useful on short loops - for long vocal takes, it's impossible to do edits and weird things with it because there's no way to locate to the appropriate area in the sample without tons of trial and error. 6. maybe my system just isn't configured right but it used to be a lot easier(1 click) to export a segment into an external audio editor. i don't use sound forge so maybe that's why this doesn't work since 3.0..? 7. fix the default directory stuff to reset properly. admittedly i frequently exit acid with a crash so a lot of times that info isn't saved. having to manually reset the default recording directoy in a non-standard dialog box that doesn't support mousewheel is a pain. 8. anyway, those are my main requests..along with the other stuff people listed, wdm/asio/rewire, reverse audio, no more crashing, etc. cheers!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: spesimen Date:3/29/2002 1:55:00 PM oh, i should add, i'd rather not mess around with an anachronistic "mixer-looking" extra window to clutter up the desktop. the current setup is awesome and far easier to do a mix with anyway! the sf folks are right that if the sliders are too small it is easy to resize the window to make them bigger..
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:3/29/2002 5:11:24 PM Yes, I just bought VegasVideo 3.0 (beautiful wonderful incredible - so much better than Premiere!) and to be able to import the full kit would be nice. That way the Big Three products at SF would form a complete audio-visual processing system: SoundForge, AcidPro4 and VegasVideo 3.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Mus Date:3/29/2002 5:17:52 PM > It would be so completely awesome to be able to open ACID projects in Vegas I was thinking the same thing the last few days. The two programs can't seem to do what the other does and neither of them does midi. At the moment Acid Pro can master-sync Logic Audio via MTC for all my midi requirements (including controlling my synths and mixers and linking to SoundDiver) but can't record enough to HD. Vegas 2.0 is not as good at MTC (why is that?) and there seem to be more bugs like snapping accurately to grid. I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade to Vegas Video 3 but I'm not convinced that it's not a hassle, especially when sync'ing programs. I heard at a trade fair recently that it was suggested to SF four years ago that if they bolted a midi sequencer onto Acid thay would clean up the market. Oh well. Regards M
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:3/29/2002 7:58:10 PM Actually, you guys have opened up a viable possibility that SoFo may be pursuing--establishing their own "ReWire"-type app for sync and group mixing between Acid and Vegas. That way they still get to push their own suite of apps. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the DXi and other necessary add-on problem, but they may just tack that stuff onto 4.0, while leaving out any direct paths to competitors' apps like ReWire and VST, etc.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:3/29/2002 8:10:36 PM Rewire is only useful IMHO if you accept that Acid should work in conjunction with packages like VST. But if AcidPro4 MIDI is good then who needs advanced VST integration ? ASIO would be more than enough. I'd rather the programmers spent their time on enhacing the core package and SF product integration.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:3/29/2002 9:17:25 PM Integrating Acid and Reason via ReWire would be hella phatt, especially if we assume that enhanced audio recording and DXi will be integrated into Acid. Midi shmidi if we've got Reason holding down that side of things, not to mention the awesome new sampler in Reason. Imagine bringing unlimited Acid tracks into Reason's to-die-for mixing environment!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: zee_jay Date:3/29/2002 10:34:22 PM Wake up and smell the coffee: Mac Support. Do some market research and look at what pros are using in video, film and audio production and post. Sorry, but Macs still reign there. I've worked with a number of production shops, and from my experience, PC's are rare - usually dedicated to one specific task, if used at all. Take a trip to Hollywood sometime. I'd love to see Acid make it beyond a hobbyist tool....
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:3/29/2002 11:22:17 PM Not this mac crap AGAIN! Please focus on the development of one platform and get it right!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:3/30/2002 12:42:15 AM Yes, forget the Mac. And Rewire is only applicable to a narrow range of products. The control standard is MIDI The audio standard is ASIO The plugin standard is VSTi/DXi
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/30/2002 12:20:38 PM Tuh. Mensch, I bristle at that one. That's the kind of elitist, snooty and typical Mac attitude that makes me want to take the Mac and shove it up your collective a$$. Iacobus
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:3/30/2002 1:25:13 PM ReWire has been adopted as a near industry-wide standard by Steinberg, Logic Audio, MOTU, Cakewalk, etc, etc. It's as "narrow" as VST or DX. Macs are simply so small in number relative to PC's that they are not financially practical to support for a struggling (40% layoffs last year) operation like SoFo. MOTU and Digidesign are big fish in a small pond, not a lot of room left. Nice to see Tools and Nuendo swinging both ways, though. Poor Mac guys--they've got the reviled "Phrazer" for loops, and now this goofy Acid-compatible "Live" app that's mainly for net performance music. Ugh. And they just raised the new iMac a hundred bucks. I can get a good P4 1.6 with everything system for about $800. A comparable Mac would be around $1900. Sure is fun paying for Jobs' psycho-obsessions like "The Cube" and the fairy-colored original iBooks that no business person would be caught dead with. Add to that his failure to see CD-RW coming, his failure to establish a game market and continuing erosion of the education Mac share. Dude shoulda stuck to making animated talking toys for the big screen. Gigantic egos left unopposed lead directly to the hardware equivalents of Jar-Jar Binks.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: BaRaq Date:3/31/2002 7:19:30 PM Ok, Yall! I use a PC & a Mac to bring clarity to this subject. First of all I would "LOVE" to see ACID work flawlessly period. My career depends on ACID! ACID is suppose to be a Professional's tool....PERIOD. We should be able to use "HIGH END" converters & sound cards just like any other software. Now to set the record straight between Mac & PC, The Mac don't "CRASH" like a PC "CRASHES". This is a FACT! I am a PC user first & Mac user second. I did some research on why this is so. The PC has a memory limit of 640k and any memory above that is VIRTUAL memory. In the Mac case the Mac uses every bit of memory that is why it don't crash and why you can assign memory to individual applications. I feel that ACID should be available for Mac & PC. ACID should take advantage of DAE so that the software can be used with DIGIDESIGN products. I use ACID to write entire songs and go to bigger studios to make entire albums in order to get "PAID". I have heard music created in ACID and I have to say this program is the ultimate in production tools. Since this is so why can't we request what is due. Look at the current feature set. The Chopper, The BeatMapper, Edit in SoundForge, etc, etc. We shouldn't have to be stuck with Direct X plug-ins. VST plugs do sound better than Direct X, and RTAS plug-ins sound better than Direct X and VST, and TDM sounds better than all of them put together. I need the best MIDI & Sync support that this company can engineer for ACID. A better Mixer cause the current mixer is straight out wack. Most of all a better design of the GUI cause I really do spend to much time resizing the screen and please don't patronize me by arguing this fact because I have a great big 21" monitor. When using 96Khz or 192Khz resolution the program really sucks. Most important WE need sonic Foundry to post compatability list for the software which users can build the "RIGHT" computer for the software instead of playing a bunch of guessing games about what works and what don't work. You have a choice of Sound Manager and Classic Windows Driver maybe this is why ACID acts so funny in Windows XP which uses the WDM driver set. Now I believe in My heart that WDM is better than the driver models before but in researching the topic Microsoft has several layers of code to troop through to get anything to work. Remember Windows is a "BUSINESS" OS and Apple is a MultiMedia OS from the ground up.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: BaRaq Date:3/31/2002 7:29:32 PM Continued.... I would like to be able to use My MOTU Midi Time Piece with ACID I want ACID to "LOCK" to timecode not just start this feature is nothing but laziness on the engineers part or lack of skill Better use of resources currently I do not see the difference between 128, 256, or 512MB or the difference between IDE or SCSI devices. SCSI does make a huge difference over IDE because IDE is very dependant on system resources. For crying out loud this is audio processing not word processing. MultiTrack support The ability to use external faders instead of mousing around when doing a full mix. Just look at the task of doing a mix within ACID using 48 tracks.....very annoying!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:3/31/2002 8:11:46 PM No question the Mac's a superior piece of hardware and OS, but it's like Beta and VHS, the inferior PC won. Let's face it, Windows is a total, buggy, insane, kludged, sloppy, non-robust POS. All Gates' products are half-assed and conceived by arrogant techies for other techies, users be damned. You have to tune the damn thing up like some junky 1930's automobile every single week! Fortunately it's less than half the price per performance. If you can afford a Mac, cool, but don't expect SF to support it, just not cost-effective for a company that size.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: mr_williams Date:4/2/2002 12:08:53 AM i wonder why ppls are requesting things like vsti support etc.. i like acid because its not bloated and hope it will stay like that! one thing im missing is to set up grid spacing buttons in the toolbar... id like to set very quickly grid spacing... its takes to much time going trough the menu. ;-/ also i said that in a earlier post.. REVERSE is a missing feature!!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/2/2002 6:40:55 AM Well here's a funny thing: I wonder why people request things like "reverse" when you can just go into Sound Forge and do it .... So bring on the VSTi plugs I say (well and maybe reverse as well). But agree most heartily that AcidPro is good because it is slim, logical and friendly.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:4/2/2002 7:04:51 AM :But agree most heartily that AcidPro is good because it is slim, logical and friendly. I have to disagree-- Acid needs to be a more robust program at this point. And don't get me wrong, I DO indeed love Acid the way that it is... but in it's current incarnation, it's VERY limited. If SF steps up to the plate and REALLY overhauls for 4.0, listening to users wants, etc., they can finally settle the 'Acid-- tool or toy?' argument.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: neon_dj Date:4/2/2002 7:56:52 AM i'd like to see a integrate midi creator sutch as FruityLoops and the support of vst plugins... :-)
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: spesimen Date:4/2/2002 12:34:36 PM >>wonder why ppls are requesting things like vsti support etc.. although acid's stripped down interface is great, softsynths are a significant part of the music creation process for a lot of people and are becoming more so every day. i would agree that acid doesnt -need- to support softsynths. but they do need to make it much simpler to integrate acid into the workflow for people who do use them. right now if i want to make a sequenced bassline, for instance, that works with a track i'm doing in acid, i have to open a different app, guess at where the notes should go, export, open acid back up, import, listen, then repeat. that's far too long of a cycle to be useful and has led to me doing most of my loop creation in other apps and only using acid to do final arrangements. if it would just work as a rewire host app and you could run reason or something else in the background that would totally solve the problem and would make things simpler than supporting vsti's or dxi's or whatever. as it stands now, it doesn't really sync properly with those apps using the sf midi router and the behavior is very unpredicatble when setting loops and moving the transport, etc. >>Well here's a funny thing: I wonder why people request things like "reverse" when >>you can just go into Sound Forge and do it .... again, this is about workflow. if you don't use an sf editor it doesn't show up in the menu. so you have to mix to a new track the segment you want (soloing out other elements and removing any busses you used since those will be applied to that track no matter what), then open the other program, fix it, bring it back (onto an entire new track just for that one tiny edit) and if it wasn't right, start over. just selecting a clip and saying "reverse" would be a million times easier - not to mention if you need to do this to more than one clip at a time.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: neon_dj Date:4/2/2002 1:29:31 PM According to me if acid has a lot of functions all in one as Cubase , acid will be the main software to make music.... Cubase has avery things and i can make music without resize the app or starting new program , i cand make music only by a click to chaghe window and to edit music...
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/2/2002 7:19:51 PM Acid is fantastic but as everyone knows it can't do basic "riff-style" construction work either as MIDI or audio. I've been very tempted to get FruityLoops just because it's simple to make 16 to 64 step patterns of drums, bass or other VSTi-based (or MIDI-based) riffs. It's sooo easy ! But I hate using mutliple applications... When oh when will AcidPro 4 be here ?
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/2/2002 8:32:38 PM As the first guy to start beating the 4.0 drum around here, it's gratifying to see the groundswell grow to tsunami proportions demanding basics we should have had long ago. Especially basics like pop-and-glitch-free audio performance on real-world machines that aren't dedicated to audio only by some tech fanatic who defrags the drive every 10 minutes and hires a priest to exorcise the IRQ from any satanic conflicts.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:4/2/2002 11:15:45 PM I guess that we'll be hearing "some" news in the near future since NAB is only a couple days away. I'm not sure if it will only be Vegas based news or the entire gammut of info about acid/soundforge as well. It's supposed to start on the 8th in Vegas...I hope that if anyone goes on the first day that they post IMMEDIATELY what they've heard/found/read at the convention so that we can all either breathe a "sigh" of relief or start saving for Sonar ASAP. I know I will if the next vegas update audio wise isn't what we all been demanding. Maybe that was the plan all along...I don't know. I found a really cool competitive upgrade offer to buy sonar 2.0XL from www.zzounds.com . $199 or so. I would rather my money go to SOFO but...we'll see.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: mr_williams Date:4/3/2002 12:02:46 AM well.. i know the reverse function of soundforge.. but if i use a sample which i want to have forward and backwars... i have to copy it! i imagine a reverse function in acid similar to the pitching function... where i can reverse each sample seperately...
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: groovewerx Date:4/3/2002 3:08:21 AM The content of this message was deleted by the owner.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/3/2002 3:13:34 AM Interesting about NAB, I forgot SF was really trying to make inroads in the pro/semi-pro video market. Would it surprise us if Acid 4.0 turned out to be Vegas 4.0 with Acid and all the above-mentioned goodies? There are some pretty basic app design issues facing SF--they've got the audio engine in Vegas--perhaps a hybrid of both products called Acid VX or something?
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/3/2002 4:07:31 AM Groovewerx's list is good, and I assume it's in descending order of priority because the last six or so (from #18 on) I can easily live without. But the big ommision is MIDI. This is the probably the number one weakness of Acid. SF only need to take a look at the simple piano-roll style of MIDI sequencing in Reason, Fruityloops or Orion to see what the basic minimum is. Cover that and the list is complete :) As for Vegas - well I'd be happy whatever app gets the upgrade. I use Acidpro 3 and Vegas 3 so I won't be complaining whichever way it goes.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: neon_dj Date:4/3/2002 8:44:42 AM according to me if acid has all in one people don't buy other products sutch as sonar reason or other to make new kind of sounds... it will come more fast and more productive becose ,for exemple, if i export a loop with FruityLoops , when i load it from acid it comes wrong... I'd like that in acid there is a line sutch as volume or pan but for the effects...i'd like that will be a beatslicer too... (i'd like that there is a italian comunity for acid....) :-) bye!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: groovewerx Date:4/3/2002 6:14:22 PM The content of this message was deleted by the owner.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/3/2002 9:59:31 PM Acid will never be a total solution without MIDI. I'd rather have MIDI and have VSTi / DXi integration as optional. But different strokes for..... In the end I don;t care how it's done, I just want it.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: neon_dj Date:4/4/2002 1:02:53 PM i'm agree with you :-)
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: SPP Date:4/9/2002 11:14:49 AM A lot of good ideas here. Here are some things I would like to see. Maybe considered silly, but helpful I think. 1. More colors for the tracks. Better yet, ability to customize the colors for pieces that have tons of tracks. 2. 64th notes in grid spacing. 3. Ability to have a swing feel. 4. Time signatures OTHER than 4/4.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: brux Date:4/13/2002 4:52:37 AM Video import in the file menu.. so when writing to picture, you can remove the video everytime you want to save, hence saving sitting there for 15 minutes when you save after inserting a 2 second loop...
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/13/2002 7:37:20 PM Why no comments by SF on these ? Interesting ? Relevant ? "We have looked at most of these", "we hear you", "some are possible", "don't worry, most wishes will be satisfied", "there will be an announcement soon", "our developers regularly check these sorts of lists". Surely SF can say something without giving the game away ?
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Mus Date:4/14/2002 11:31:00 AM Well Ted said two months ago "This thread should be good!". Er, was it? Anyhow my vote goes for full Midi, but then again I would still need a mixture of Logic and SoundDiver to control my synths and mixers. Also more time signatures. I guess a workaround would be more subdivisions of a basic bar like quintuplets, septuplets etc... Regards M
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/14/2002 11:54:20 AM They just got out VV3 and now Forge 6 so they're probably on vacation. Expect 4.0 out for Summer NAMM and given the importance of it and the fact that Summer's just around the corner, SoFo's gonna be zipped tight 'til then. Don't think their competition wouldn't love to get some idea of where they're going with it!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: pwppch Date:4/14/2002 9:38:06 PM >Why no comments by SF on these ? Ok, I'll comment Sonic Foundry has a policy of not pre-annoucing or discussing new product features. I am a developer working on ACID, so I assure you developers regularly check this forum and read this list. We are aware of what users of this forum are asking for and discussing. Keep the discussion going, but go beyond the bullet items and wish lists. Debate and discuss "how" rather than "what". Making a laundry list is easy. Making the items in the list features is a different task completely. Talk about how you want to work and how a specific feature will fit into the scheme and scope of ACID. Peter
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: nlamartina Date:4/14/2002 9:53:41 PM Sweet. Thanks Pete. All over this... - Nick
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/15/2002 8:32:23 AM Detailed suggestion for AcidPro 4 MIDI sequencing is fairly straightforward - there are accepted norms and orientations: keyboard left, time left to right. Note length as bars, controller info at bottom.... The variations in packages come in the MIDI depth. I'm not a huge MIDI user, nor do I think Acidpro4 should try to be - the area is just too huge. Reason does basic MIDI sequencing well and I'd be happy with that, end of story... But there is one area which the big sequencers fail and where the little guys like FruityLoops clean up: DRUM PROGRAMMING. And since loops - and usually drum loops - are the heart of Acid doesn't it make sense to really extend this? So let's have an integrated step sequencer, but please read on, this wouldn't just be a simple Reason-style or Fruityloops step sequencer.... Sure, you take the basic "808 model" for programming. Sure you can do this in any normal sequencing program like VST by painting in the steps but it's interesting that this is NOT a popular method. In fact the true button step-sequencing model of FruityLoops is usually acknowledged as the main reason for its popularity. (Note that Reason is inferior because you can't display the tracks simultaneously, and Orion fails because you're limited to 16 steps). I already do I slightly similar thing to this with Acidpro now: up the resolution high enough and you can drop the one-shot drum sounds onto the grid and form a pattern. As each one-shot needs its own track you end up with something that approaches the FruityLoops model. But it's tedious. Perhaps a real version could function like this: * You highlight the track space which you want to display in the step sequencer. It might be a single bar, six bars etc - a bit like a ripple edit. Your selection might already include music or loops. * You then select the step measure (or resolution) - 16 steps per measure would be the default. Any existing wavs in the defined area which didn't fall on the selected beat would prompt the dialog: "quantise events?". If you select "no" then the events in that track would be locked (otherwise how would you show these events? By selecting "no" it's also implicit that you want to keep those events where they are). * The track then displays in step sequencer mode. This would be very similar to the usual track display except that you have already chosen the resolution. You drag and drop one shot samples (or loops) onto the left-hand track listing in the usual way. The tracks themselves would need to look different - perhaps bevelled pseudo-button style chunks that you click to activate a "hit" of the wav. A second click deselects. * The step sequencer automatically loops and plays any other tracks in the song that aren't muted. * When you've finished fiddling you can just return to "normal" mode (with your tracks full of little one-shot samples), or you can render the sequence as a single wav file - already in place. Enhancements: * An extension of this system might let you define multiple parts and tracks in "step sequencer" mode and leave them that way to allow constant tweaking as you go. A song might be full of dozens of little step sequencer parts which are in reality no more than hundreds of little one shots. * Each track could have a different resolution: for example the bass drum might be in 8th notes, the hi-hat tracks in 64ths. You could freely select and alter the resolution at any time - always with the threat of "quantise events" of course. * A dockable panel where, once you've clicked on the individual "hit" on a track, it's properties were highlighted in the panel: pan, volume, pitch, envelope. A tempo-synced routable LFO would be nice too! These selections would override the general track envelopes unless you selected some option like "clear track modulation". * Fruityloops has a useful function where you can choose to distribute "hits" in the pattern every 2,4 or 8 beats. This is a good time-saver for setting up plodding kick and snare, but primitive. How about extending this concept? How about a big selection of beat patterns ? For example: hip-hop bass; ska snare; classical timpani roll; maracca; hi-hat rock; african tom. Build the feature to allow third-parties to build "pattern plugins" to extend this range. Allow users to save and swap patterns. This is a business in itself ! Could also prove very popular with DJs and the low-end Acid products. With this feature Acid is not just a loop player, but a very fast and friendly loop generator. You could even sell sample CDs full of drum and percussion samples AND several hundred appropriate auto-patterns for Acid ! This would really make for fresh loops. (I'm even getting myself excited about this one) ---- Some questions this brings up: * Do you allow Vsti / Dxi instruments to use this step sequencer function ? Well, I can't see how it would work, the concept is really designed for one-shot samples. If you want to use VSTi then just plug them into a standard midi track. * You could easily end up with a dozen tracks just generating your drum loop. So how about a "parent track" ? This would not have anything in it, just be a easily distinguished track where you could drag and drop other tracks into, then label: "drum tracks", or "FX sounds" etc. ---- Hope these ideas are of some use. I'll try to think of some others.... Spirit
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: zendar Date:4/15/2002 11:23:44 AM That was an absolutely awesome suggestion Spirit! Full agreement here. SIMPLE midi sequencing would be nice, ASIO/VST would be nice, but something like this would really open up ACID as a creative tool. ACID has always been popular because of its immediacy and simplicity, I'd hate for that to be lost, but since v3 and the chopper function I've been able to get more and more loop MAKING done in ACID, not just painting, and the results are often better-sounding than Recycle'd samples resequenced in FruityLoops. By better-sounding I mean funkier, less rigid, more variations/randomness available because of the way you can cut and paste. The drum sequencer as detailed above would be a logical extension of this direction, and would lock down this market sector IMHO.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: kgreach Date:4/15/2002 11:56:28 AM STOP everything and work on only this…make the pitch shift and time stretch algorithms so great that you can pitch shift an octave in both directions and time stretch +/- 100 bpm without any noticeable change in quality. Then allow the user the flexibility to fine-tune both features, in the thousandths, while listening to their acid project. Presently I rate the pitch and time features of Acid 3.0 as barely a 7 on a scale of 1-10. If the Acid developers could make it a 10, they would create the greatest music development program on earth.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: neon_dj Date:4/15/2002 3:54:51 PM Cubase has a DrumMachine , VST, a synth and midi creation and more .... cubase i very power... FruityLoops has Drumachine , VST , a synth , midi creation and more .... FruityLoops is very power too... Acid hasn't those things... but i use it becouse has some editable thing sutch as bpm...(and a wonderfull comunity) but i'd like that ACID has something of fruityloops and cubase sutch as n-Tracks (that has a lot of things but isn't so power...). i'd like that ACID will be the best mixer all in one (so i'll make very wonderfull music!) bye!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/15/2002 9:48:46 PM This is great, first we have to tell 'em the obvious: the 1,001 things they DON'T have in Acid! Now SoFo wants us to design their GUI for them! Do you guys do ANYTHING for your paychecks??? Sonic Foundry desperately needs to expand their loops line into: Alternative Rock Acoustic Guitar/New Age Folk/Country Cinematic Orchestral The market is glutted with techno dance crap. SoFo: Here's a nickel, buy a clue!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: nlamartina Date:4/15/2002 11:50:55 PM Maruuk, what is your friggin’ problem? All that’s come out of your mouth in the last month it bitching and complaining about what you don’t like in Acid, what’s missing in Acid, why Sonar r00lz!%#!, ad nauseum. Then, despite your consistent sarcasm, insulting remarks, and utter lack of courtesy toward the SoFo staff, Peter is nice enough to come in here to ask you to make yourself a little more clear about why you think certain features should be included in his company’s “junky product”. Then you have the audacity to take this generosity and insult him again. My gosh, where does this make sense in your brain? Hello Maruuk: This means they’re listening! Listening for your input, what you’ve been asking for this whole time. Not like they weren’t listening already, since there’s a product suggestion page! Duh! In summary Maruuk, I’m probably not helping matters by feeding your apparently shallow ego by responding to you in a negative and public manner, but the fact remains that I, among others, am sick of your useless negativity in this forum. You’re not “shar[ing] tips and advice with other Sonic Foundry product users.” You’re being a dick, plain and simple. So knock it off. If you’ve got something positive to contribute, then do so. I’ve appreciated and admired your constructive posts in the past, but crap like this latest post is annoying, as you’re acting like a spoiled, self-centered little brat. Grow up. That’s all I have to say on the subject. ::ahem:: I’d have to agree that it would do SoFo loop selection good to expand in different directions of acoustic instrumentation. I fully believe that Acid is capable of being more than just a Techno/House/Scratch/Rave tool. For example, most acoustic samples in the current selections are limited to riffs (loops) and a couple random chords (one-shots). Often times, there are many different types of guitars, making it hard to mix and match without the progression sounding silly. If instead the CD’s contained one-shot chords (with the same instrument) from all up and down the twelve tone scale (in at least major and minor), you could effectively “paint” a really nice, convincing chord progression. Throw in some generic lovesick vox samples, a good set of drum patterns, and you’re golden. Just an idea. M2C, Nick LaMartina
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/16/2002 12:35:11 AM This idea would work well with the "auto-patterns & step sequencer" idea. You put various one-shot chords on individual tracks then select an appropriate "guitar rhthym pattern. Perhaps there could be a way to have auto-patterns consisting of two or more parts....
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/16/2002 12:41:27 AM And how about extending the "auto pattern step sequencer" idea by enabling the patterns to be loaded into the chopper. The chopper would then slice parts from the wav according the pattern slected. For example, one long, swirling pad would be chopped into an african drum rythm - sort of like a gapper/snipper. This would be very good for novices (using SoFo presets), but also remember that if you can save your step sequnce track as a "pattern of events" you could them impose this pattern on other long wavs - this has got to lead to some very novel sounds.... Need a beta tester ? :)
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: groovewerx Date:4/16/2002 1:21:40 AM The content of this message was deleted by the owner.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/16/2002 2:04:03 PM nla--Oh please, are you in the third grade or what? Your sickly sycophantic toadying to SF is purely Monica-esque. Have they sent you a volume of Walt Whitman yet? A new pair of kneepads? SoFo is a capitalist corporation out to make a profit. If they can make good money selling us dated sub-standard crap they will. If we make it clear to them that the user community demands far better, they may wake up. If they want to be long-term players in this market, they'll have to. When I was raising the bar here 6 months ago and demanding an accounting of professional 4.0 features you were harping and whining at me with the rest of them. Now it's politically correct to list desperately-needed features so you chime in like a good little lapdog, but still want to snipe at me--what a crock! Acid is a dinosaur that still gets lots of use, but then so do Model T's. They are simple, and charming, and require a great deal of maintenance. And you have to drive something else home if you want to live. You negativity-freaks that want to parse out every criticism I make neatly ignore the positive comments and positive suggestions I make because THEY DON'T SUIT YOUR ATTACK DOG AGENDA. Guess what, you slimeball info-Nazis don't bother me a bit--in fact I consider it a victory when one of you harping, whining hateballs has to devote whole paragraphs to bashing me. I must be doing something right! Anyhow, to summarize, Acid must adopt all conventional interconnectivity standards, full midi and audio capabilities, and SoFo must radically expand loop content discs into new acoustic music areas. Acoustic guitar is sorely lacking, especially since the modal approaches of a lot of New Age styles lend themselves to Acid perfectly. Also a quality version of the Orchestral series focusing on modern real-world film music would be a gigantic leap forward. The current disc is almost useless as it was loops written by an old-school Euro-ethno freak who makes everything sound like Glazunov and Smetena vs. Borodin and Mahler in a musical tag team match from hell.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:4/16/2002 3:20:45 PM This is what you said: This is great, first we have to tell 'em the obvious: the 1,001 things they DON'T have in Acid! Now SoFo wants us to design their GUI for them! Do you guys do ANYTHING for your paychecks??? I agree that YOU are out of line. slimeball info-Nazis...Where did anyone diss you to the point of STUPIDITY? SonicPCH said a few post back: We are aware of what users of this forum are asking for and discussing. Keep the discussion going, but go beyond the bullet items and wish lists. Debate and discuss "how" rather than "what". Making a laundry list is easy. Making the items in the list features is a different task completely. Talk about how you want to work and how a specific feature will fit into the scheme and scope of ACID... So far many people have been only asking for a list that just "copies" whats been done before and are asking the users for what they really want!!! YOU,Myself,and many others have to take the time and REALLY think about what new features you could use that NOBODY HAS TO OFFER! And that you/we personally couldn't live without. All this bashing of one another is wasted space+energy that could go into ideas to make ACID 4 into something that makes someone NOT use any other program for loops or etc... Yes sofo has made mistakes before but to harp on them while their trying to get things right is freakin' counterproductive DAMMIT! Maruuk...since your the cakewalk pro. What features or routing options,etc...that you see in their product line do you feel are weak and underdeveloped. That if acid had DX automation/DXi's etc and implemented these new ideas would put ACID 4 ahead of the bar,destroy the curve and make cakewalk hustle to play catchup? Think out of the box yourself on this one as well I and hopefully the acid R&D team has enough resources+time to get it done by summer namm. I'll be installing XP pro today so I can't even post any ideas because I vented to this post. I'll be back later with my added list. Later.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: nlamartina Date:4/16/2002 3:37:32 PM My gosh Maruuk, you really are a piece of work. As humorous as I find your zealotry and your need to crucify yourself every time someone disagrees with you (along with your amusing use of a thesaurus), I can’t help but be saddened by the fact that you obviously missed the point to my post. If you actually read over my post more than once, instead of replying to me in a blinding fit, you would have been able to understand that I never once “harp[ed] and whin[ed]” at your comments or you suggestions (check my post history before you throw out false accusations, bud). In fact, I was very much enjoying this thread, until you decided to act like a dick and spread your negativity from one thread to the next, as you often do. I rarely see you offer solutions to Acid problems other than, “It’s crap software. Go buy Sonar.” What a cruddy attitude. And you wonder why you catch flak? You see Maruuk, I’m all for improvement and progression, but I know from experience that a flagrant, self-righteous, and derogatory attitude gets very little work done. This is software, my friend, not a peace protest. There’s a time and a place for emotionally loaded comments and mud-slinging, but this is not it. Civil discourse is how changes are made, and if you haven’t learned that lesson in your life yet, I suggest you do so quickly. In the end, Maruuk, you are entitled to your opinions, and we “whining hateballs” are entitled to disagree with you. It’s a fact that you clearly don’t understand. So go ahead and “beat your Acid 4 drum”, “raise the bar”, and champion yourself as God’s gift to the Internet. Be my guest, but don’t be surprised if people disagree with your hopeless pessimism. If you have anything further to say to me on the subject, I suggest you e-mail me directly. We’ve wasted enough space on this thread, and gotten far off topic. A slimball info-Nazi lapdog, Nick LaMartina
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/16/2002 4:27:45 PM shut--You've totally ignored the very thread I started in which I asked for folks to specifically blue-sky ideas for Acid "outside the box" since we've hashed over the zillions of items Acid is lacking that other apps have to death. Please show me how that is "negative" and "bashing"??? I've been running Acid wish lists on this forum for 6 months. How is that "negative" and "bashing"? Is this thread then "negative" and "bashing"? Buy a clue. You guys have to realize this is a free public forum in the United States of America for varied and opposing opinions on Acid, and trying to hound someone out of here for your own private agendas is probably the most heinous crime you can commit in here, short of posting child pornography. Get a grip gentlemen, if you disagree with something, post informed opinion in opposition, do not sling ad hominem epithets. BTW, I could list for you the 7 unprovoked vile names nla has just called me in his post without provocation--a precipitous ad hominem name-calling schoolboy-level hatefest of the highest order. Meanwhile, I never addressed him before in my life. If someone starts an attack against me, I repeat, STARTS an UNPROVOKED attack against me, I will RESPOND, and all bets are off. I am free to call them whatever I like. But I will never launch a name-calling tirade against ANYONE here unprovoked, as much as they may disagree with my opinions and ideas. If you jerks want to start a fight, trust me, I will finish it. Please try to remain civil, and respond to ideas, not go off attacking posters personally who may like or not like aspects of Acid, or Sonic Foundry. Unless you have a corporate agenda for Sonic Foundry. I flushed a number of those shills out a long time ago, are guys just the new wave? I suspect nla is not, just a self-righteous bigot who is driven crazy by anyone who disagrees with him. But then I wouldn't have to relay that sad truth if he didn't attack me first. Repeat, if you want to unilaterally attack folks personally in here, shut your pie hole. If not, expect all hell to come down on your head. Have a nice day.
Subject:Here's my Acid idea (pic included)... Reply by: nlamartina Date:4/16/2002 4:45:10 PM All right everyone. There have been several really good suggestions about the future of Acid 4, such as pitch and tempo envelopes, automation, etc. However, I feel one of the biggest problems with our suggestions has been procedural… How can this be implemented without overhauling the entire Acid interface and overwhelming those who design the software? Familiarity and ease is a good thing, and SoFo certainly wouldn’t want to change that, nor would it be appropriate to alter the “pick, paint, and play” method, as I feel it’s once of Acid’s biggest selling points. Therefore, a means to implement the above-mentioned ideas needs occur in a manner that is closely related to how Acid already operates. My suggestion is adding the “master track” (see picture). Here’s how this would work: The user finishes the most basic pieces of their song, but desires to add some more interesting effects that stem from the master bus. For example, let’s say the artist wants to have the song slide (not leap) up a major 2nd, while modulating a flange effect over the whole mix between a 20-80 and 40-60 blend, followed by a tempo slide (not jump) from 145 to 120. Since true automation is currently not an option with these things, what he/she ends up having to do is bounce the whole mix to a new track, add another bus, create the flange effect (using an effect envelope), render it again, then bring it into Sound Forge or Vegas and try to modulate a tempo/key slide without giving it that “cut and paste” feel. What they end up with is an end product that sounds cheap and disjointed, rather than fluid and organic. Not only that, but it took half-an-hour to do. Therefore, it’s hardly worth the time. How can this change? Enter the “master track”. The user goes to the “View” menu and enables the “Master Track” (MT). Like the video track we already have, the master track floats on the top of the mix and stays there, regardless of how the user scrolls up and down. In terms of the signal flow, it would be one step before the master bus, allowing one to still place mastering or global FX between the mix and the hardware. The MT can be treated much like any other track in terms of placing FX and volume envelopes on top. This way, if a user wishes to give the mix a global effect or play with the overall volume (like doing a fade), they can simply manipulate the MT, instead of sticking envelopes in every single other track (or click-fades). This saves a tremendous amount of time. Not only that, but it makes Acid a more robust and powerful tool, since it gives the user a lot more control over how their project plays back. Furthermore, pitch and tempo envelopes also are used with the MT. Their operation is just like any other envelope, with the exception that the user must drop tempo/key markers at the beginning and end of the modulation (to make the changes less ambiguous to the user). Then the user connects the two points and chooses between the automation types (fast, slow, smooth, or linear). Voila! In the end, the master track gives Acid users far more creative control over their mixes. Instead of trying to simulate the afore-mentioned processes with gobs of steps and another piece of software that can’t even really achieve the desired effect, the process stays inside Acid and is accomplished in less than half the time with more than twice the results. Not only that, but it builds upon procedural practices that Acid users are already accustomed to, for a minimal learning curve and fewer logistical problems in terms of programming. In my mind, it’s a pretty smart idea. Comments, anyone? - Nick LaMartina
Subject:RE: Here's my Acid idea (pic included)... Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:4/16/2002 7:43:36 PM Agreed... My only addition as of right now would be to add a Buss track with the same properties minus the tempo stuff. Such as "BUSS A" will appear right under the "MT" track and will adjust volume,panning,fx overtime for whatever is sent through buss a[and so on...buss b,buss c,etc...] These "automatable" busses[for a lack of a better term] can ofcourse be minimized so that to not take up toooooo much space. That way the overall mix gets what it needs and the individual busses gets their automation that I feel it needs. I can't remember if spirit said this or whomever so please don't yell at me... Having a preset 4 or 8 bar rthym section to speed up the pasteing of drum parts. Say I have a "dockable box" that has a 4/8/16 spaces for notes[quarter,eighth,sixteenth]. Write in your rthym that you would like a "one-shot" to follow. So say you add for a 4 beat section a gallop[eighth,2 sixteenth and so on]. With the pencil tool click on the point in the timeline of any one shot and hit a shortcut key to paste the one shot to fit the gallop. This would best suite drum one shots and be a cool effect for wave files you wanted to mess around with in the chopper. Or maybe it would be better to have a "paint" tool that when you select it and go into the work area and right click on any track it will have a pull down selection of different rthym selections to choose from. That way when you want a gallop of a kick of whatever ammount of time all you do is choose the gallop rthm [eighth,2 sixteenth and so on] and just paint down the time line with perfect precision. Then right click and go to quarter notes and so on. This would just speed up the process. Of course if you right click and hold it down the paint brush will still have the characteristics of the eraser. It's only after you release in a open area of the timeline. Or just include a added brush for such types of emergencies. Anybody else?
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Chienworks Date:4/16/2002 11:51:56 PM Maruuk, actually this is not a free public forum. It is a private forum owned by Sonic Foundry. Free speech does not apply here except by whim and grace of Sonic Foundry. I would say they have been amazingly gracious.
Subject:RE: Here's my Acid idea (pic included)... Reply by: Chienworks Date:4/16/2002 11:57:57 PM Very good idea Nick! That would answer many of the problems i see posted in here.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/17/2002 2:40:52 PM chien--Last time I checked we don't have to pay to get in here--sounds free to me. And public? The public is absolutely invited to come in here--it is the very definition of a free public forum. Even more so than the Yahoo forums which are very structured and restrictive. Now I guess I missed the banner headline SoFo raised that reads, "Come in here to kiss our royal butts." Obviously, you saw it. If there is one thing that should piss off SoFo, that would be pontificating, arrogant bullies who try to hound out sincere, thoughtful contributors to the forum. Posters who unilaterally make ad hominem attacks on other posters and call them names and hurl personal insults at them. I suspect those would be precisely the posters who should be banned from the site. Sonic Foundry is running a business. It's good business to have a forum of this sort. Sonic Foundy has taken money from all of us, and owes us the same level of free, public support forum that all the other software manufacturers supply to their users. That's simple parity--not a magical gift from a god above. Please go on about your imagined rules of propriety in here, you are very inventive to be sure!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: doctorfish Date:4/17/2002 7:11:47 PM 1. The ability to use different loops on the same track. When building guitar progressions or even vocals, it seems a little silly to have 6 or 7 tracks with these little bits strewn up and down like a roller coaster. It takes up a lot of screen space and seems very inefficient. 2. The ability to record more than one track at a time. I don't mean to become like Vegas. I like Acid as a looping program. However, I do always add some recorded tracks to my Acid projects and it would be nice to do more than one at a time. 3. Event envelopes. Sometimes I have an envelope on a track that only makes one adjustment, a volume dip or something, before going back to the normal level. The option to have an envelope on just that event would be nice. 4. Master and buss tracks with envelopes. Great implemantation posted above. 5. Rewire. I don't need much midi, but after playing around with the Retro AS1 Lite softsynth, I see this as a very powerful tool. 6. Pitch Envelopes. Great for track and project envelopes as well as the aforementioned event envelopes. 7. Effect parameter automation. I hear this is coming in DX8i and such, but I never hear many details about it. Effect envelopes are great for the majority of my automation needs, sometimes even better, but I still do come across situations in which I'd like to do more than just change the level of the effect. Acid would be perfect for my uses then. Dave
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: nlamartina Date:4/17/2002 8:57:40 PM Doctorfish, I have just a couple observations about your suggestions that may provide you with some useful info: "1. The ability to use different loops on the same track. When building guitar progressions or even vocals, it seems a little silly to have 6 or 7 tracks with these little bits strewn up and down like a roller coaster. It takes up a lot of screen space and seems very inefficient." This has been suggested to the SoFo staff in the past, and I think the main reason it continues to be rejected is that it changes the "pick, paint, play", track-oriented method that Acid has become so famous for. If this were to be implemented, then the paintbrush tool would have to be eliminated. If there are multiple samples on the same track, how's the brush to know which one you want painted? Also, the Chopper would have to be drastically changed as well. Right now, you simply select a track to give the Chopper "focus". If the tracks were instead to be empty containers filled with ambiguous material, again, there would be no way of telling the tool what to manipulate. In the end, the consistant and linear setup of Acid ends up looking more like the elastic and unrestricted format of Vegas. Both have their place. In my mind (and in the mind of the SoFo staff, apparently) this alters one of Acid’s most fundamental strengths. Maybe you ought to try making loop-based music in Vegas. I’ve spoken with a couple users who prefer this method. Also, if you’ve found you’ve got a bunch of tracks for just one progression, take advantage of the Acid environment and just bounce that progression to a new track, making a new loop. This is how I often times create a new drum loops (utilizing one-shot kicks, snares, and hats). 2. The ability to record more than one track at a time. I don't mean to become like Vegas. I like Acid as a looping program. However, I do always add some recorded tracks to my Acid projects and it would be nice to do more than one at a time. How many tracks do you want to do at a time? If 2 simultaneous channels is not enough (there’s really no sense in recording a vocal with two mics concurrently, unless for some special reason you’ve got in mind), really consider giving Vegas a shot. From what you’ve described so far, it sounds like it could fit your needs better. 3. Event envelopes. Sometimes I have an envelope on a track that only makes one adjustment, a volume dip or something, before going back to the normal level. The option to have an envelope on just that event would be nice. This is actually how Acid 2 did envelopes, but that was ditched in favor of track-wide envelopes in the more traditional rubber-band style with Acid 3. I’m sure this was for a good reason. For me, it saved me a tremendous amount of work when working with tracks that had lots and lots of tiny, chopped up bits of a loop. In Acid 2, I had to manually zoom in, add the envelope to every single event (we’re talking like 20 or more in a measure), and modulate the thing up and down on my own. This resulted in tired, frustrating work. Now, in Acid 3, I just add the envelope, add two points and move them. 2 seconds of work that used to take 15 minutes. 7. Effect parameter automation. I hear this is coming in DX8i and such, but I never hear many details about it. Effect envelopes are great for the majority of my automation needs, sometimes even better, but I still do come across situations in which I'd like to do more than just change the level of the effect. Amen to that. I believe this has been the most-requested feature by far. Hope this info helps you out, Nick LaMartina
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/17/2002 9:58:19 PM The number of posts to this topic seems to be going up but I can't see anything past Groovewerx talking about beta versions.... Is it just me ? (This post is a test)
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/17/2002 10:08:39 PM OK, seems to work, I'm just going nuts. Please excuse me. So here's another idea then: Taking a loop, analysing and resorting is getting to be pretty popular. So how about a modification to the Chopper where it analyses the slices (like Rewire), defines them with the slice points the you can press "rearrange" to randomly resort the slice order. You might also have the option to "hold in place" certain slices by clicking (Ctrl-click) on them first. This is a slight enhancement to my earlier idea of the "step sequencer auto-patterns" where you could feed a pattern into an existing wav and it would do its best to slice the wav according to the selected pattern. Again you would have the option (just like in the step sequencer - of opening the "modulation" panel where for each slice you could select pitch, volume, pan and perhaps tempo-synced LFO.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: nlamartina Date:4/17/2002 10:30:55 PM I can see everything alright. What browser are you using? And at what screen resolution? - Nick
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: doctorfish Date:4/17/2002 10:40:13 PM Nick, Good point about the painting of loops. It's good that I'm not developing this software!!! Recording more than one track at a time isn't of big importance to me, just a convenience. I actually do use Vegas for most of my recording needs, but I've created some projects which are primarily loop based and to which I'd like to add vocals, bass, and guitar, just a few tracks. It can be done well enough in separate passes, this is true. Again, it's a small matter, just to make things a little easier. I hadn't know that Acid 2 handled envelopes differently. I agree that track envelopes are the ideal most of the time, but I thought it might be nice as only having the option to place an envelope on a single event. You're right though, and again it's only a small concern, and I can certainly live without it. Since I don't do midi, I'm really quite happy with Acid, just the final automation touches and the master and buss tracks then. Thanks for the response. Dave
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Spirit Date:4/27/2002 5:22:51 AM Assuming that AcidPro4 gets MIDI sequencing abilities then the ability to bounce the tracks to audio will be essential. Something like a simple: "convert MIDI track to wav" button would be ideal. But of course3 this will only work for VSTi/DXi devices directly working in Acidpro4. That's where ASIO comes in. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it essential to have ASIO support so that externally triggered devices can pass audio into the app ? Id AcidPro4 cqan have this feature - and avoid the tedious nature of doing this in VST/Logic - then it will be a fantastic feature. I hope it'll be included.
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Maruuk Date:4/27/2002 5:11:36 PM Good call on the direct midi to rendered audio! Reason does this transparently--it's a dream. In Cakewalk products, you have to first "bounce tracks" from a soft synth or sampler midi track up through an open audio track over to a recording audio track. Then render on a separate pass. Waste of time. I guess the longer we wait, the better 4.0 will be!
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: Ted_H Date:4/29/2002 11:12:29 AM Good suggestions everybody! Make sure to submit your suggestions via our product suggestion form as well, or else the right people may not see all of them: http://www.sonicfoundry.com/support/productsuggestion.asp Ted
Subject:RE: What We'd like to see in Acid! Reply by: miller325 Date:5/7/2002 11:58:06 AM Haven't read all 102 replies but I'm sure this has been mentioned. If not: printed manual!

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