Subject:Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Posted by: buckaroo

Date:8/23/2015 8:21:36 AM

Is this possible? I know its not strictly multi-track, and we are supposed to use Vegas, but SF editing directly on the waveform in place is really good.

I saw this video : https://youtu.be/gCQ7gkMrCNc

The last SF i used was v8.0 which was strictly stereo/2 chn.

I know SF isn't a proper DAW, or sequencer, so it lacks a Grid (or can a BPM grid be brought up in multi-channel files workspace?)
And also you can't add EQ for the whole track like Vegas, Cubase, Logic etc (but you can apply fx to the waveforms itself) which is very flexible.

I can't think of another Editor or DAW (maybe PT but thats clunky) that has the power of this way of editing that Sound Forge. I have looked at Protools and Audacity/Audition, but they are not the same as SF.

If SF was multi-track or even Vegas was more editor like SF then that would be great!

Or is multi-track / better multi channel coming in SF12? :)

Is anyone using SF as a basic multi-track editor workaround or know of artists doing this? as it looks perfect for me :) but I don't have a Windows 7 PC to try it out on at the moment

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: roblesinge

Date:8/23/2015 9:53:53 AM

Short answer is not really. You'll spend more time hacking your way into something that doesn't completely function as a multi-track DAW. Why not just use SF in concert with your multi-track DAW of choice? I know both Vegas and Reaper will allow you to set up an external editor for editing individual tracks. You do your mixing and what not inside the multi-track and then pop open SF for detailed edits on individual files. Unfortunately, this is probably your best bet for a workflow.

Rob.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:8/23/2015 11:20:47 AM

OK thanks..

Such a shame that SF isn't multi-track/single editor all in one.

I know everyone shouts to use Vegas, but I didn't like that program.

I do use Reaper which while great, doesn't have the direct level of editing on a multi-track (or channel) timeline.

I grew up on SF as find it very fast.

Long shot but I hope SF 12.0 moves a little more down that road, or a bit more flexible in the multi-channel dept.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:8/23/2015 8:48:21 PM

It's a bit like how Word doesn't do spreadsheets.

Can't understand how you could not like Vegas (turn off the dark-grey colour scheme and kill the irrelevant windows). As Rob said, SF it just a right-click away on the occasions the functionality you need isn't in your DAW of choice.

geoff

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Phantom Engineer

Date:10/31/2015 2:36:52 PM

I use Pro 11 as a multi track editor. I record my band on a Tascam DP32 portastudiuo and then import tr tracks to Sound Forge for tweeking and mastering and then back to the Tascam for mixing. It's really less convoluted process than it may sound. I know SF isn't a DAW and I don't use it for live recording but I love it for multi channel editing. But I did use it to record my 8 track analog tapes to the computer.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: roblesinge

Date:11/1/2015 5:53:51 PM

Technically, it is a Digital Audio Workstation, it just isn't a multi-track DAW. Your described use-case is probably the best way to incorporate Sound Forge into a multi-track setup. For example, I use Reaper to do my multi-track work and then have SF set as my wav editor. For detailed edits, you really can't beat SF.

-Rob.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:11/2/2015 7:39:41 AM

This is interesting, and mixing multi-track is done a little more by sight than ear I would think in SF.

I've used SF since 1997 and love how simple and quick it is.

But to combine multi tracks into a stereo file quickly and simply looks like a different approach and am pretty sure it could work

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:11/2/2015 10:20:26 AM

I would think the stereo mixdown in Sound Forge would be a bit of a pain. In the channel converter you'll have a grid showing what percentage of each original channel to use in each of the output channels, so this would be something like a pan control on a mixer. However, you wouldn't be able to preview it. You'd have to save a new file, then listen to that new file to see if it sounds right. There would also be no automation, allowing you to change panning as time goes on, though you could get around that by duplicating channels, adding fades, and then assigning one of those to the left output and one to the right, but once again no chance to preview.

Vegas makes all this very much easier, and with real-time preview.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:11/2/2015 10:39:14 AM

Yes it was just a different way of working, more like tape, just getting ideas down..

I would just love a multi-track editor/DAW in the vein of Protools but more like SF whereby you could do SF style editing direct on the track without using a DAW and SF as its editor..

I've not tried Vegas in years, but would guess it doesn't have the editing of SF built in

I am using Reaper, but its still a pain, when you can't shade over a selection to delete or add an fx

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: rraud

Date:11/2/2015 11:49:53 AM

"I've not tried Vegas in years, but would guess it doesn't have the editing of SF built in?"
> Vegas has similar editing too, but not the same as SF. OTOH Vegas integrates with SF very nice which allows working directly on the file within SF or the Vegas event/clip via "Open copy " which opens subsequent 'take(s)' in SF

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:11/2/2015 12:01:58 PM

Does SF 9 / 10 / 11 with the Multi-channel audio, work ok on Windows XP?

I'm in a dilemma as to go for a faster PC machine with Windows 10 or W7 to try the latest SF or stick with an older XP machine (which I know well up until I switched to Mac) and use the standard v8 which I loved

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: rraud

Date:11/2/2015 1:30:01 PM

Sound Forge 9 and 10 both work great on my old P4 XP machine.

addendum, SF11 sucks anyway IMO... at least the redesigned (aka, f__ed-up) plug-in chainer and record GUI.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:11/2/2015 3:46:50 PM

Thats good to know.. but just so I get up to speed - is there a SF 12?

What was the differences between 9 and 10 ?

SF 10 looks like it could do my multi-channel thing, and still be a great 2 track editor for other DAW's im using..

I never went above windows XP, which while I know isn't supported now, always did what i wanted it too, and buying a cheaper 4GB ram PC to go alongside my 20Gb Mac, i wouldnt actually have the PC on the net, only through the Mac (when it was needed) so it would be a dedicated Editor machine with Reaper, and SF

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/3/2015 1:14:33 AM

Suugest you have more of a play with Vegas. A recording and mixing app (ie a DAW) couldn't be much more intuitive, straightforward, and elegant IMO. Maybe you were missing something ?

geoff

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:11/3/2015 3:19:43 AM

Yes I may do, although i do prefer Reaper for the similar Acid/Vegas style, but its just SF is in a league of its own..

With the multi-channel thing, I just wanted Vegas to do what SF did directly on the Timeline with its detailed editing whilst in context of other tracks in a project. I think all DAW's now use the same priniciple as Vegas, and you have to open the file in another window/program (SF) - I wanted to do all of this in one app/DAW..

Also secondly I heard that Vegas could be coming to an end? and possibly SoundForge?
Surely this can't be true??

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: rraud

Date:11/3/2015 11:32:27 AM

"is there a SF12?"
> Don't know if or when a SF Pro 12. About the only possible upgrade would be 64bit version, but the 32bit version works on a 64bit OS. Don't know anything about SF-Mac. The latest SF11 builds can only be installed on Win 7 or later..
Many think the next 'Vegas' will be a complete redesign and different name.

"What was the differences between 9 and 10?"
> No big changes to the 9/10 GUI. SF Pro 10 may have offered more channels, supported DAO CD burning and included NR-2, CD Arc and the iZotope Mastering Suite. Previously NR-2 and CD Arc were a separate purchase. Not sure exactly if some of these were bungled w/ SF9.
Aside from bug fixes, according to the SF10 release notes:
- Event-based editing.
- Disc-at-once CD burning.
- Enhanced timestretch and pitch shifting with the élastique Timestretch plug-in.
- Support for processing musical instrument files (.dls, .sf2, .gig).
- The Global media cache setting on the Editing tab of the Preferences dialog allows you to reserve RAM for media recently read from or written to disk.
- Metadata windows.
- Floating window docks.
- Enhanced Broadcast Wave Format (.bwf) support.
- Enhanced window layout management — save, recall, and share custom window layouts.
- Tabbed browsing for maximized data windows.
- iZotope MBIT+ Dither bit-depth conversion and 64-Bit SRC sample rate conversion.
- Resonant Filter plug-in.
- Custom selection grid lines.
- You can now set default fade types for effects on the Editing tab in the Preferences dialog.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/3/2015 5:29:59 PM

To all intents and purposes Reaper/Vegas are functionally equivalent, whereas SF is very different.

But I still can't imagine what SF type functions you are regularly requiring to do on your tracks ! If it is the case that you are need waveform editing procedures so often that you feel the need to 'mix' in an editor such as SF, then maybe there is something wrong elsewhere that could be addressed instead.

Certainly normal mixing functions such as levelling, panning, splitting, trimming/moving events, fading, event alignment, FX application, etc are far far easier to achieve in Vegas (or Reaper !) that in SF.

Can't imagine SF will end, and desperately hope Vegas doesn't (Catalyst does only a limited subset of Vegas's functions), but that doesn't mean the apps as they are now will somehow cease to function !

geoff

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:11/4/2015 9:46:58 AM

"... far far easier to achieve in Vegas ..."

Indeed! If i'm doing anything beyond taking a stereo recording, trimming, noise reduction, or volume adjustment, i go straight to Vegas. Vegas' editing paradigm simply sails at all those features, whereas trying to do mixing in Sound Forge is kinda like trying to drive screws with a rock: you can get it done, but it's gonna take forever, easy to make mistakes that are hard to back out of, and is probably just gonna hurt.

I will admit though that in my early days of using Vegas, i often found myself wondering how in the world to accomplish all the things i used to do in Sound Forge. It is a different mindset and if you do try to do things the same way it's not going to work well, if at all. You do have to learn what Vegas is capable of and how, and why it works that way before it can replace your Sound Forge work flow.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: rraud

Date:11/5/2015 12:09:06 PM

"mixing in Sound Forge is kinda like trying to drive screws with a rock"
- Kelly, I like the analogy.
I wouldn't say either is a 'replacement' for the other, though some of the same things can be accomplished, Surgical editing and waveform repair, is best done in SF and .. 'mixing'.. is typically done in Vegas. The best would be a combination of the two... my usual workflow.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Dexcon

Date:11/6/2015 5:35:03 AM

+1 rraud

Sound Forge is excellent for forensic editing and repair, and Vegas is really good for mixing.

Yes, it would be great if we got the best of both worlds in the one package - probably in Vegas. But its really already there because you can open SF directly from within Vegas by right clicking on a specific audio event in Vegas and selecting the audio editor selection (assuming that the desired audio editor has already been selected under the Preferences/Audio tab in Vegas) What's more, the 'used' section of the audio event on the Vegas timeline is highlighted in SF. This is particularly useful if wanting to further edit in SpectraLayers 3 (via the Tools selection in SF) as only the highlighted area in SF - which of course can be adjusted - then opens in SL, and therefore you're only working in SL on the critical area of the audio event rather than the entire length of the audio event.

A big plus is that this works for 5.1 audio in both SF11 and SL3.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:11/6/2015 10:51:50 AM

Yes this does sound great, and using Reaper in the same way as Vegas for me, but i might try Vegas again as its been a few years... Lets hope it doesn't cease now!

But I am the same, I'd love a single combined App / DAW of SF, Vegas and Acid, so that you could do the tiny edits within the Timeline and not in SF in another window..

Rather like Protools which I think is the only all in one DAW to do this editing wise on the timeline?

But a new hybrid VEGAS DAW that combines Sound Forge built in, and the ability to switch tracks to LOOP tracks so in essence it become ACID would be great..

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: UKharrie

Date:11/9/2015 7:21:21 PM

Dexcon really has said it all - SFS allows me to remove clicks, adjust levels and add some oddball effects which can then be used sensibly in ( the Studio version, SMS )...
But aren't we forgetting that Vegas was an Audio editor originally? - back in the early digital days I guess - and that's why is so good as a mixer -AND- you can add "Notes" using the Text generator, to remind you what you have done, settings, etc. Then when you Render the Audio just Mute all the unwanted tracks. Having saved the (dot) vf file in case you need to revisit, to make changes etc.- far better to go back to the sources, than try to fix the Stereo Rendered version.... well, that's my theory. Good luck.

Subject:RE: Sound Forge 11 - multi-channel as a Multi-track?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:11/9/2015 9:08:59 PM

Of course, .vf is for the Studio version. The Pro version saves .veg files and contains a lot more features and audio editing power.