Blacks crushed in Blu-ray discs

Velcro Face wrote on 6/18/2015, 6:14 PM
Sony DVD Architect Pro works very well for both DVD and Blu-ray discs, but the final result looks inferior to discs encoded with Avid DVD by Sonic. Specifically, the blacks look crushed, with very little detail. Here's my workflow: I output Avid projects to DNxHD video only, same as source, in Rec 601/709, and add that media to DVD Architect. I then output the audio as a WAV file, create a 5.1 surround audio-only project in Sony Vegas Pro, render that to an AC-3 file, and use that for the audio in DVD Architect. It takes a long time to encode the AVC video (about twice as long as encoding MPEG-2 in Avid DVD by Sonic), so I would expect the quality to be superior. It is nice and sharp, but it's a bit contrasty. It looks like an RGB color space clipped to 601/709, but why would that be if the output from Avid was 601/709?

Comments

Former user wrote on 6/18/2015, 7:56 PM
Is DVD Achitect rendering the AVC video?
Velcro Face wrote on 6/18/2015, 8:18 PM
Yes, I've set DVD Architect to render the AVC video. I tried using an AVC file encoded by Sorenson Squeeze, but DVDA insisted it was not compliant, and re-encoded it.
Former user wrote on 6/18/2015, 8:45 PM
Other people can provide better answers I am sure, but since DNXHD is a QT file, I would assume that DVD Architect is misinterpreting the color space.

Most people will advise you (including me) to use another program to compress rather than let DVDA do it.

If you must encode in DVDA, then render to a more Windows friendly codec like AVI from Avid rather than a QT file.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/19/2015, 8:02 AM
Do your stream rendering in Vegas using Architect templates and Studio RGB levels.
Search if you don't understand the terms, but don't render in Architect (that's a soccer mom feature).
This information has been passed on hundreds of times.

Velcro Face wrote on 6/19/2015, 10:14 AM
Well, excuse me for asking the question. I wonder how many soccer moms are using Avid Media Composer to cut broadcast television series. Actually, I have tried rendering in Vegas, as well, and the results are the same. However, I would prefer rendering in DVDA because it allows me to set the bitrate higher than the 16 Mbps bitrate that Vegas defaults to. (Try raising that bitrate, and you get an error.)
Former user wrote on 6/19/2015, 10:18 AM
In Vegas, you will probably have to compensate for the error in the Colorspace. You can't compensate in DVDA.

In Vegas 11, I just set the Sony AVC codec to render at 21bps with no error. How did you try to render in Vegas? Does Avid have an option to render to AVC?

Musicvid was giving you good advice. The render in DVDA is very basic. Normally it does not give you the controls that a professional requires in a finished product.
Velcro Face wrote on 6/19/2015, 12:54 PM
Yes, I can export to AVC in Avid, but DVDA insists on re-encoding it. For some reason, DVDA seems to think that only AVC files created in Sony products are Blu-ray compliant. I'm still on Vegas 9, mostly because it seems to be more stable than the later versions I've tried, with fewer artifacts on the renders. I can select 20 Mbps as a bitrate in Vegas, but it returns an error.
Former user wrote on 6/19/2015, 2:12 PM
I did not have Vegas 9 so it could be a limitation of that version. 11 lets me encode over 21mbps.

Can you download Mediainfo and select an AVC created in Avid and one created in Vegas and see if there are any obvious differences? (other than bitrates, of course)

I did some searches and saw that these are common complaints about DVDA that you have ran into. I always use MPEG2 so have never had these issues. Although I know it is not a great suggestion, you might research other BluRay authoring software.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/19/2015, 5:15 PM
"Well, excuse me for asking the question. I wonder how many soccer moms are using Avid Media Composer to cut broadcast television series."
Who said anything about rendering for authoring in Architect using Avid??????????
I sure didn't, and I think your premise is way off base here.

The guidelines are in Sony Knowledgebase article #84; otherwise you're welcome to reinvent the wheel, which would make asking for any guidance here completely irrelevant, wouldn't it?

Learn to walk before you run.
The bitrate you "set" in Architect is the project ceiling, not the rendering bitrate!
Also, bluray levels are correct when source levels are correct. We call it "Studio RGB" or "REC709".
In case you missed it earlier, recompression in Architect is a bad thing ¡­¡­¡­¡­
Best of luck.
Velcro Face wrote on 6/19/2015, 11:42 PM
Well, Avid doesn't offer a way to create Blu-ray discs. So those of us who use Avid for editing must find a solution outside the Avid camp. And I've had good experience with Sony software in the past. What's off-base about that? In fact, there is a thread on that very subject on the Avid forums, with many users recommending Sony DVDA for Blu-ray disc creation. After all, Sony invented Blu-ray.

You'd better check your facts because the rendering bitrate in DVDA is the rendering bitrate. Yes, I would rather not recompress in DVDA. That's why I output same-as-source DNxHD files, which DVDA accepts just fine. And yes, if you actually read my post, you would see that I export it in Rec 601/709. Obviously, DVDA is doing something wonky with it.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/20/2015, 5:00 AM
"Obviously, DVDA is doing something wonky with it."
[EDIT] BluRay video levels from Architect are
You don't need our help, but do let us know how it turns out after you've revisited your workflow in MC (and checked all your facts).