I believe it is a big no no in movie making to move the camera 180 during the 15-35 second duration. Woman on the left, then on the right, than back on the left, etc. I forgot the term, but I'll assume you get my point.

Time-lapse is my expertise not video, so if my comment makes no sense, please disregard.

crossing the line is the term you're thinking of...

just because you have fx at your fingertips doesn't mean you have to use them (all at once)....

At least your 'teen cop' short had enough camp to make it watchable..

Greg never met a filter he didn't like.

And slapping a worn film effect on it doesn't make it 1971.

hahaahaha thanks for all the feedback! I really do appreciate it, and was expecting this thread woul dbe ignored. I think constructive criticism is the BEST way to improve things. :) So, I am happy to take lumps! Now, here's my weak excuses:

- zero budget. But I bought the actors gift cards so I am in the hole now. :D
- solo crew: me, 2 actors. My first time ever directing anyone. Guy did perfect, girl - my fault.
- after watching, I find the disconnect between the running and the rocket. People not into NASA won't know what they are looking at.
- this tells you nothing about the real story. The viewer is watching a classroom historical video about the founding of Moonbase HVN-5707. This is a deep, human, plot sci-fi that will never get funding.
- the 180 thing: Rich, perfectly valid viewer input. This is footage from "Security cameras" so the stationary, back and forth, wide angle shots were on purpose
- FX, yeah *I* had fun blowing up the world :D

DGates, that IS the silly, zany premise of Teen Cop. :) Thanks for watching.

Seriously GREAT, unexpected feedback! I just want to write/create stories... not film, not edit, not do FX, there are people WAY BETTER at that stuff than I ever want to become. This is just fun for me bringing a vision to reality. If it doesn't work, I grow and move on. :)

Sorry, no refunds on your 2 minutes :D

Wwjd,

First of all, keep doing what makes you happy.
Use the tips and advice if they are useful to you. They are obviously given to better your work, not to discourage you.

Next time if you want tot avoid 'crossing the line' you could hang a camera on top (without breaking the 180-degree rule), even if it is a Gopro.
Usually security cameras are placed high, usually at the corner area.

Getting the camera closer to the subjects would get the audience closer to the characters.
There are security cameras that can zoom in, so it woud have been possible.

Concering the acting, the probable reason for the acting to be so ‘unbelievable’ is probably due to the performance being too ‘planned’ or unnatural.
You could go through sources like these: http://www.theatrefolk.com/blog/solve-common-mistakes-beginning-actors-make-free-poster/


Best,
VMP

Thanks for the input VMP!

I did wrestled with the security cam mounting issue before the shoot and it just didn't work out. I wanted to mount high like real cam's but come shoot day at locations, and time frame (4 locations in 4 hours) it just didn't work out. Tween best setup or scrapping it all, I compromised.

Will definitely look at your acting link. This is the first thing I'd written (and was too wordy), and first time directing real people, so I have a lot to learn!

ABSOLUTELY APPRECIATE the feedback, guys!

Sorry for not understanding what is the issue here?

IMHO it must have been much fun to make up the idea - then write the manuscript - then finding accessible locations - prepare recordings etc.
Then rewrite the manuscript because something was not possible - and - and -
and then one more time start from square 2.

That is precisely what I do 30+ hours a week too - just really enjoying my video making hobby..

..and I too was not aware of the "How to Solve Common Beginning Actors Mistakes" etc. etc...

(shiver) I must have made some terrible films :- )

So: Please allow me to give a big +1 to Greg Best for doing what he so obviously enjoys to do - and looking forward to watch the finished film.

Thanks, ritsmer, it was a TON of fun doing all that like you mentioned! But the critiques are correct as well, even for a zero budget, hobby production. Things could/should be improved.

This is all there is "The Moon People" until I can get 10 million to really do things up right - STARTING with the writing. The story has to exist and be completely interesting and sellable before something like this could take off. Some locals said I should kick start, but I've never been a fan of that, and I don't have a completed, awesome story yet, so.... it starts with the story quality first.

Thanks for watching!

+1 Ritsmer.

Wwjd,
Everyone has the license to enjoy.

Enjoy your learning process. Each of your work will be a milestone to look back to.

Have fun.

Best,
VMP

Exactly VMP, got lots of great feed back here. This is a GREAT learning resource.

I say playback real loud, because I worked hard on the soundtrack to this, to make it explosive and I think I hit that mark. But, video people seldom consider the audio. Which is tragic as it is 50% of the experience. Sound is historically the worst part of a good many indie productions.

@wwjd,

Now that you explained the reason why the actors "crossed the line", specifically you were trying to simulate a security cameras, I doubt many folks would make that connection. I tink you should have shown those scenes in "B&W" and used "3x4" aspect ratio or perhaps as a video security wall with 4 cameras which we frequently see security guards looking at on a CCTV. Shooting down from the ceiling would have also helped to make your point, but you mentioned already.

Making a movie takes more talent than I have, I'll stick to my time-lapses of clouds and stars. All the best.

Unfortunately my British ears couldn't understand very much of what was being shouted at the beginning. I could understand nothing the woman said and only the odd word (eg "No time" and "Oxygen") after the initial "Emily, Emily".
I wonder if there is some way you could have reinforced what was being said with relevant images (eg clearly, but subtly, labelled dials going into red or empty, alarm lights flashing, computer screens flashing up the nature of the problem)

Working only with club members as actors, I can assure you I've seen a lot worse that what you have here, but as Bob says, getting believable actors (and a believable script) need to be the starting point for any serious attempt at drama.

Despite the acting I thought you managed to convey a sense of urgency well through a mix of shots, music and SFX.

VFX were generally good although flames (as is often the case) seemed rather "stuck on". Did you try different compositing modes?

How did you animate the moon to give the impression it was revolving?

Thanks again, guys for more valuable input!

Rich, the security cam presentation was a personal struggle for me. Initially, my vision was crappy, square, TV looking pics, but since I was shooting 4K, and it is in the future a bit, (and I love 2.40:1 aspect) I opted for the movie wide look. I think enlarging the time stamps on screen would help (too late now) but looking at it on a 4K screen, it seemed to work. Was going to have them panning back and forth too, but that seemed too cheezy and cliched.

Tim, the voices are a train wreck - I should have directed her to not be so screechy. Was going to ADR all of it, but I wanted to "security cam" sound. This video is to be the "Feeds she transfers to the capsule" - sort of found footage of the origins of the moonbase, and destruction of Earth.
I won't make excuses - it didn't work as well as it did in my head. And I left some things out that might have helped, but, oh well. The whole thing was an experiment for learning stuff.

FX - I know very little about FX, don't have the tools, am not pursuing. I'd rather let someone else who's good deal with that.

Moon photo is not rotating, but sliding in and down a bit, while two layers of stars move in background. I considered trying to simulate a bit of rotation with a feathered COOKIE CUTTER circle and some animated shadow, but that was not the initial idea in my head. That moon pic was from NASA public share.

Thanks for watching, and especially for providing constructive criticisms!! It helps me gauge how OTHER'S EYES see this kind of thing. :) Invaluable!!!

I completely agree with everything in Tim's post. As for your fire-in-the-hallway effect, I suggest investing in some pre-recorded stock effects such as Action Essentials from Video Copilot: https://www.videocopilot.net/products/#stockfx . You will find it makes a huge difference, as nearly everyone's procedural fire is pretty poor unless you have some very high-end software such as Krakatoa: http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa/

Peter

Tim, my bad... you meant that dark rotating moon behind the text? That was NASA footage available on their website.

Tech Diver, I am a no budget hobbyist so I use all free clips. I bet there is way better stuff out there for puchase. Maybe someday.... :)

If you are budget-constrained then check out this site for stock fire/explosions: http://www.detonationfilms.com/free_stuff_page_2.htm (I'm not sure how usable their footage may be, but it's worth a look).

Peter

I enjoyed it. So much less boring than the ads I typically do. If it wasn't for those pesky bills...

I'm going to take a different tack here.Granted, this could be just you noodling around and sketching out ideas in rough ways, but I'm going to assume you want to develop this a bit more and see if it starts turning into something. In that case you're playing with visual ideas to see how things translate from paper to screen.

I think the story is that the world blew up and a few people were able to rocket to the moon. They've been there for generations, increased their numbers very very slightly, and are about to run out of supplies so they need to recolonize the earth. I think that's what's revealed in your text towards the end.

So, these surveillance camera shots are archival footage as far as the MOON PEOPLE are concerned. The shots are also, of course, a device to tell us the viewers that the earth blew up. But I think you're framing them as something in the past of the moon people, at least in your description.

In terms of story, you're kind of introducing these two people as if they'll be characters. They have faces. They have lines. For some reason we're watching them do specific things. However, I suspect that these characters might never appear again in the story. It's not important to us to know their story or their sequence of events in a stairwell. It's certainly not important to hear their dialog. By giving them this much detail you make them seem important to the story. You should probably provide less and make viewers use their imagination a little more. Maybe tell the story of panic and fire in broader shots. We don't even really need to know there was a rocket to the moon since any scene ON the moon presupposes that there were some rockets.

That said...surveillance cameras. These are things that are watched. By people. Who's watching this? Are they the ones switching from one view to the next? Could they do other things? Freeze frames? Rewind things? Why are they watching?

The thing is, by making things look like surveillance footage and then editing cuts into it, you call attention to the fact that this is a recording, and probably being watched. In theater terms you've broken the fourth wall of the scene by implying there's an audience, even if the audience is some unrevealed person within the larger story. Would that person really watch it this way?

That's all fine. Play while it's easy and cheap. But definitely work on the story and actually get it into something that's more whole and complete.

I often bring up a light bulb joke at this point.
Q: How many art directors does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Does it have to be a light bulb? Could it be a candle, or a fireplace, or...

HA! IT worked!! Brilliant! HOLY FRICKING CRAP, Rmack are you someone I know?? You nailed nearly everything ALMOST perfectly. It is like you are in my mind!! This expositional teaser says almost nothing about the actual plot of the movie concept.... a huge mistake, yet something I could film for fun, successfully.

Yes, they are unimportant characters never seen again, only shown as exposition to explain WHY the moon people are stuck up there. I would love the entire event to be much longer, more detailed, and way cooler and exciting, but this is all I REALISTICALLY could pull off with my time and negative budget.

But you READ IN TO IT all the stuff I wanted to push: the security camera video is being watched by students on the moon in a history class. The ending to this intro is designed to be a pull back from a view screen, showing the children watching it, sitting in a classroom on an obvious moon base, being taught the history of their existance - which is a big part of the plot conflict later-- - that scene I simply could not pull off.

The reason for the dialogs during the run is to impress the impossibles odds they faced: ZERO warning event, 5 minutes (or less) to get to and launch the rocket, "YOU CAN'T FLY, YOU'RE LAUNCH PREP!!" "DOESN'T MATTER! WE HAVE TO TRY!!" - audio was hard to understand.

Her dropping half the discs of the KNOWLEDGE BASE is a large part of the plot as well where there are gaps in the moon peoples knowledge - that plays in a big way when they return to the charred Earth.

So, yeah, there is a complete feature here, but I am still working out an exciting ending. Overall, it is not an action flick as much as a sci-fi positioned human drama with some action, some philosophy, a love story, and a lot of what ifs. The kind of film I would like to see. :) Not saying it is great, just working on ideas I have never seen before. I have not revealed the main plot direction because it is a spoiler, but Zombies are NOT involved. No monsters or horror anything.

Thanks for viewing! And LOVED the joke!!!

PS I hate the name "The Moon People". It's just soooo bland, but I haven't worked to come up with anything better so I left it as is. :D

Tech D, yes Detonations films effects is on my list of great freebies. I think I used them alot in my last production. Good stuff!!