HD render to DVD, 'Good Enuf' solution?

WayneM wrote on 4/3/2015, 4:43 PM

I've been thru a bunch of threads here looking for an answer to this and haven't found it. If it is already covered, a link to the correct thread would be appreciated. (No need to re-invent this wheel which I feel MUST be covered somewhere!)

The bottom line question is with VP13 what render should I execute (possibly a modification from one of the existing MC render presets) to get the best quality onto a DVD from my 1920x1080 60p source video from a Canon XA20.

So far I'm test rendering my HD footage in a VP13 project for DVDA 6 using is the MC template for "DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream. " It is acceptable quality when viewing the DVD and works well on the screen. I have loaded the rendered file back into VP13 and checked frames where alternating line 'jaggies' might appear. They do not seem to be there. The edge will blur of course, but no jaggies.

However, when viewing the DVD created with DVDA 6 on a Sony Blu-ray player and pausing on some frames with horizontal shifts I do see 'jaggies.' (Viewers will be unlikely to pause on these frames, of course.) They do have a different look when viewed in real time but it isn't to distracting. Maybe this is something introduced by the playback system which is a two year old Sony Blu-ray played via HDMI to a two-year old 37" VIZIO display.

Considering the source material, could I be modify the MC template "DVD Architect 24p NTSC Widescreen video stream" and change the Output Frame Rate from "23.976 + 2-3 pulldown" to "30.000"? The default field order is already progressive.

Any clarification appreciated. In the meantime I'm trying a test render to 30P to see if it even works.

UPDATE: I created a 30P test render and replaced one of the 7 videos on the DVD. They all have a common introduction. The 30P render (when previewed from within DVDA) has noticeably less jaggedness of stationary diagonal lines, something I hadn't considered before. In areas where there is fast horizontal movement I still see major 'jaggies' in both the 30P and the other rendered video.

Wayne

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 4/3/2015, 5:12 PM

1. Do NOT change frame rates. If your source is 23.976 (24p), then render to that. However, if your source is 60p (which is what you originally stated), then do NOT render as 23.976 (24p).

2. For 60p material, render to DVD using the DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream at 29.97 fps, which is the default. Since you are starting with progressive video, the field order doesn't matter.

It sounds like you are already doing #2. If you see "jaggies" when you freeze frame these are probably not jaggies but interlacing. This is normal when you freeze frame interlaced video, and will in no way make the video look worse when it is actually played.

You could render to 30p by using the same DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream template, but setting the render to progressive instead of interlaced. I do not recommend doing this because you'll throw away half your temporal resolution. You are already throwing away half your spatial resolution going from 60p to 29.97 interlace (aka 60i), but you can't help doing that because DVD doesn't support 60p.

Bottom line: you got it right the first time: stick with that.

WayneM wrote on 4/3/2015, 7:02 PM

Thanks very much John.

In VP13, the Properties of the .MTS files from the XA20 are identified as Frame rate: "59.940 (Double NTSC)" and Field order: "None (progressive scan)"

"2. For 60p material, render to DVD using the DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream at 29.97 fps, which is the default. Since you are starting with progressive video, the field order doesn't matter."

I had a question about that, until I got to the part about "You could render to 30p. . ." and you brought it all together for me. I'm compiling all these critical tips in a document (Evernote Note actually) so I have long term access to these answers.

I was misusing "jaggies", which I guess is when diagonals get an evident stair step look. What I was seeing is the normal interlace alternate line offsets with rapid horizontal movement.

An hour ago I did burn a test DVD with one of the segments rendered to 30p by setting it to Progressive. Right off I knew there would be some loss because of the warning that the file would have to be recompressed.

On the 30p render the opening with the diagonals of a sign close-up appeared much cleaner and didn't seem softer, but I'm sure they had to be. On first impressions and comparisons with the other 60i renders the edges of fonts were smoother and it seemed a slightly less pixelated, more pleasing appearance. I'm sure that is subjective and I'm going to go with the settings you recommended. The fact it was being recompressed means I'm tossing away more data.

I think I have all I need to "put this puppy to bed" . . . although at times I've wanted to "put it to sleep!" :-)

Thanks again. . .

Wayne

johnmeyer wrote on 4/3/2015, 9:43 PM

1. Do not base your evaluation on freeze frame. It is misleading.

2. Play your test DVD on a TV set, not on the computer because some computer media players do a lousy job handling interlaced material.

3. If you are trying to judge differences between 30p and 60i, I would recommend encoding about a minute of video to both formats, and put them on the same re-writeable test DVD and set it up so that one clip plays immediately after the last one has finished. Make sure to include video where the camera pans sideways rather quickly. The 60i encode should look much smoother than the 30p. As for spatial resolution, I would not expect you'd see much difference.