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Subject:reversing phase on layer / SL3
Posted by: xybor
Date:1/29/2015 2:08:05 PM

I am on SL3. Firstly, I want to mention what a great piece of software this is. I was an early buyer of SL1, which I was lukewarm to. Delayed getting SL2 until I had a project that could justify it, which coincided w an upgrade to SoundForge 11 via a special Vegas 13 pro offer. This was coincidentally within a week of the release of SL3, so I got the SL3 upgrade.

SL3 is phenomenal. Paired w SoundForge 11, it is a VERY powerful audio editing environment.

Anyhow, I recently recorded a drum kit using six mics - kick, snare, hihat, overhead pair and mono room. Sounded great. However, the hihat is overtracked and I can't lower the volume enough. It was picked up on the direct mic, as well as the overheads and the room, plus some other bleed. Even muting the direct mic does not lower the volume enough.

I tried isolating the hihat in SoundForge using a parametric EQ, but could not because it disrupts the rest of the mix too much. Brought it into SL3 to try and isolate it and phase reverse the hihat, but it was too difficult for the entire track.

So I tried using the stereo track mix as the base layer, then imported the direct hihat as an addition layer. I was thinking that, by aligning the hihat with the stereo mix and reversing the phase, it would cancel out and I could lower the layer volume unit the hihat sat right in the mix.

Doesn't work. Just gives me more hihat.

Am I missing something? Why wouldn't it cancel? I also tride reversing the order of the layers.

As a bit of a negative byproduct of this effort, I tried to copy and register the hihat track and then "cast to layer" over the main mix. However, SL crashes each time I copy the layer. I am wondering if it is a memory issue. I am running Win7 w 12GB ram and an i7/2.79GHz processor, so I kind of doubt it is a hardware issue.

On the "cast to layer" functionality, I have used that technique successfully on a vocal track where there was a lot of music competing in the same frequency band. It really pushed the vocals up without needing to increase the volume (or decrease the mix volume). Definitely check out the video tutorial on this and the "Mold Layer with ..." function.


Subject:RE: reversing phase on layer / SL3
Reply by: divideframe
Date:1/29/2015 2:27:36 PM


The hihat track you import as an additional layer must be sample-perfect aligned for the phase cancellation to work. It's a little tricky when the 2 layers don't come from the same digital source.
NB: the layer order has no importance.
As you point out, an easier way would be to use layer casting, which doesn't need sample-perfect alignment, and can work with 2 different sources.
I emailed you regarding your crash with layer casting.

Subject:RE: reversing phase on layer / SL3
Reply by: xybor
Date:1/30/2015 10:18:16 AM

Update. The layer casting technique worked great. I was able to bring down the hihat to a level that I wanted. The difference is subtle, but to my ear was exactly what it needed.

As far as the execution, I first tried the layer casting of the hihat track against the entire mix, but I found it too invasive. So I exported a stereo drum mix from Cubase and applied the layer casting to that mix. I imported the finished mix into Cubase, muting the individual tracks. Perfect. A couple extra steps, but the end result is worth the effort.

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