Subject:How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Posted by: kbruff

Date:9/26/2014 5:29:29 PM

Hello - I just upgraded my Sound Forge, and I am experience a locked up start of the program, when it comes to NI - Kontakt version 5...

My question is how do how to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)?

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: mudgel

Date:9/27/2014 5:28:26 AM

Momentarily rename your VST folder to something else. After SF opens go into preferences and change the paths that it searches for VSTs. Remember that Kontakt is a VSTi and sound forge can only use VST fx not synths as it has no midi capability.

If you want to use your VSTs you may have to create seperate folders for your VST fx and synths.

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: kbruff

Date:9/27/2014 10:53:55 AM

Mudgel,

Thank you - I have since performed the change as you recommended, and the process has worked. Thank you very much! I am surprised however that the start up script hangs versus intelligently checking then bypassing vsti - versus - vst, etc.

Thank you,
KB

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/27/2014 5:08:23 PM

@kbruff

Unfortunately, there is no way to know it is a VSTi vs a VST with out actually loading it. A limitation of the VST technology.

Regardless, it should not do this. I will bring it up to the Forge team.

Peter

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: kbruff

Date:9/29/2014 9:26:47 AM

@ Sony PCH,

I appreciate your help and feedback, I have been able to start SF11, after I performed the renaming of the folder.

I was wondering if there was a secret option like olding down ALT key while starting the SF11 to bypass scans such as the VST and so on.

Thank you,
Kevin
9/29
*****

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: DD12

Date:10/2/2014 10:48:54 AM

I got caught on this issue today.

I have SF10 and SF11. SF11 I managed to get to work by brute force and repetition, SF10 crashes every single time.

The only solution I can see is to divide the VST folder into synths and effects.

Symptoms I encountered:-
1. the splash screen would hang
2. processes revealed a SFVSTSERVER process, which if I killed, would advance past troublesome VSTi's - if you left it, it taking more and more memory.
3. Absynth 5 and Kontact 5 were favourite places to hang

Ran NI Service Center and that improved matters.

Renaming the VST folder temporarily will get you in though. That's good advice.

One thing that really annoys me is when SF11 hits Ensemble Pro... then that starts to load VST plugins... oh here we go...

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: DD12

Date:10/2/2014 11:00:17 AM

Almost let you get away with that comment!

VSL Ensemble Pro 5 does a really good job of splitting synths from effects by scanning the folder (and sub-folders) ONCE, and caching the information. It does not crash on scanning.

So my argument here is... well, if VSL can do it, it is possible, and SF10 and SF11 and Vegas12 and Vegas13 could benefit from looking at their regime of managing this VST shortcoming. Classifying things in separate lists works for VSL, why not Sony?

My 2c's

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: Angels

Date:12/28/2014 2:48:57 PM

DD12 is right: I've been using Forge for almost 15 years: I've never needed to segregate FX from VIs. That's a ridiculous procedure that no other host I've ever used or tested needed. Part of the VST plugin scanning process is determining which are to be used and which are not, and being able to blacklist problem plugins to prevent reload on restart. What's happened?

I upgraded to the Vegas Pro Suite and got SF11 Pro as part of that upgrade (never mind that they don't credit for owning almost every other version of Forge...). So I just installed v11 today. The 32-bit version on W7-64. No 64-bit version... hunh...

I've been using v10 with all my plugins and without issue. But I can't get v11 to scan the exact same folders without crashing. And there's no memory of the scan: SF11 restarts as if it had never scanned anything. So there's no automated solution, and I'm not going to separate my plugins and rescan all my hosts. I've got literally hundreds of plugins.

I hope Vegas isn't as screwed up as Forge, but it sounds like it probably is. I don't know what's going on at Sony, but from all appearances, things seem to be moving backwards. Sad, sad days. Back in the box till a fix comes along. I hope I didn't just waste my money.

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: MaleXLR

Date:1/11/2015 6:53:55 PM

What we need is for Sonic Foundry to buy SF back off Sony. It was never like this in the old days.

I can't use the term "upgraded", but I have moved from SF 9 to SF 11, can see no advantages whatsoever and have had nothing but problems with glitches, stuttering and issues with VST and Sony plugins.

Yes, I can increase buffer sizes and reduce the responsiveness while I edit, but I shouldn't need to... and I foolishly expected SF 11 to be 64 bit and also allow me to use ASIO drivers - foolish, FOOLISH ME!

When I asked Sony "support" about paying for an upgrade, I had a response after five days.

With serious issues about support which is affecting my business and my income, I have lodged five support requests (with updates and attachments) since the end of December and have had absolutely no response from Sony.

THEY NEED TO BE MADE TO BE ANSWERABLE!

I am happy to go back to SF 9 and have asked Sony about the process of obtaining a refund... Let's see how that goes!

Angel, if you're sitting on your upgrade waiting for a bug fix why not do the same and make moves towards getting a refund? If enough people do it, maybe they'll get off their arses, fix the problems and provide some bloody support!

(Rant ends...)

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: MaleXLR

Date:1/11/2015 6:55:17 PM

Sound Forge "Pro"!

Hmmm, really... "Pro" - must be a meaning I am unfamiliar with!

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: Angels

Date:1/22/2015 9:26:23 PM

Sorry, I've been busy working with software that works... ;)

Well, for me SF11 is now part of the Vegas Video Suite, part of that upgrade, so a refund isn't realistic.

However, I ran 64-bit VST scan using Vegas 64-bit, and while the VST scan seemed to progress somewhat faster than with Forge, it still ended up having an error and crashing the program. And just like Sound Forge, when the program is relaunched THERE IS NO RECORD OF WHATEVER WAS SCANNED and it's like I never re-assigned the paths and no scan at all had taken place. This is just wrong and bad practice. Clearly someone at Sony decided that the onus of determining which plugins work and which don't falls on the user, which is completely "bass ackwards". I tried the latest 299 build, BTW, and it's still the same.

I know some of the Sonic Foundry crew is still there (yes, I mean you PCH!) and while I have no doubt there are still people there with the best of intentions, I simply don't understand why this issue is an issue at all. This is VST-hosting 101, and you used to do it right.

I've now entered a support ticked on the subject. Hopefully this can be resolved sooner rather than later. I'm actually surprised this isn't an issue for more people, but maybe this has something to do with the number of plugins involved. I have a lot of plugins....

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: Angels

Date:1/26/2015 8:26:08 AM

Last night I started SF11 for the first time since I posted the above and incredibly it started scanning the correct VST plugin folder on it's own and even after a couple of crashes it managed to get through the entire list and is now showing and instantiating these plugins without issues.

Encouraged by this behaviour, I opened Vegas 13 and while it didn't immediately start scanning the VST folders, after I reset the path, it scanned and crashed as before, but I kept relaunching it and resetting the path until it too managed to scan the entire folder (64-bit this time) successfully.

Have I cried wolf? Actually, it seems the scanning process clearly has some issues, but it also seems it can manage to hobble through given enough iterations. Good to know. Hoping this will help someone in the future, and also hoping this will be streamlined in the future. FYI...

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:1/26/2015 7:32:10 PM

The scanning process certain has issues when it comes to a dodgey VST. Maybe they could somehow 'wrap' the ignore the faulty VST and carry on with the scan, rather that coming to a road-block.

geoff

Subject:RE: How to stop or bypass VST scan SF11 pro (293)

Reply by: Angels

Date:2/13/2015 5:31:48 PM

Yes I agree: there should be some kind of sandbox to test the VST's so the scanning process wouldn't crash. But it's not atypical for hosts to crash when scanning VSTs and they usually keep a record of what's happening from the very first scan. There is definitely something buggy about the "amnesia" SF and Vegas are currently displaying on subsequent scans after scanning and crashing..

And while I do have "dodgy VST" (experimental, freeware, beta), I've segregated them to a special VST folder that I keep apart from all the commercial and supported VSTs I use because I know how many problems these can cause. I only assigned the "safe" folder to SF and Vegas, so this shouldn't have been an issue.

Considering one of the fixes suggested by support is to remove instruments from the plugin folder (a bad workaround for many reasons...), I suspect maybe differentiation between synth and processor may be the problem. Instruments appear as VST plugins in the Organize menu alongside their "FX" counterparts when in fact they shouldn't even be there at all.