I'm pressing hard into 4K, but it is not consumer standardized yet. Lots of mixed messages about playback on TVs, and low content. Also, 4K cameras tend to render down to 1080 and look much better, since most 1080 cameras are not REALLY 1080. Examples easily found.

I have a 4k monitor now, I SEE 4K tvs looking way better than HD (others do not), and feel 4K is the pinnicle of equaling our eyes vision. I feel 8K will be great for gathering, but not a huge visual difference from 4K unless on a 300 inch wall TV or something. Japan is leaning into 8K broadcast.

4K TVs are on the rise because they can and you will find a large majority of them for sale now, with prices dropping steadily, and HD becoming less and less.

Do we NEED 4K? Of course not. Will people buy into it? Of course. No reason not to since they are the same price as HD tvs now. We also don't need towers as high as that one in Dubai, Ferraris with 800 Horse Power on the street, and breast enhancements, but we do it. :)

FILMMAKERS are loving 4K for the quality of capture, and movies have been shot on film equivilant to 4K for decades. Most digital films now are 2K - SOME 4k projections sprinkled about.

It is just more progress - no reason to stop progressing and making things better. But yes, HD still rocks hard!! Great stuff! Fun times in this advancing industry!

Being discussed incessantly - but huge hurdles remain - especially for the independent. Really no practical workflow is number one impediment. Next, the current camera choices are huge compromises even over what the HDV format first offered to the affordable market nearly 9 years ago. That is progress going backwards.

Most important for the small producer, they really need cameras that CAN shoot in a better color space and can be workflowed to an endpoint in a practical way. Resolution of the sensor is not and should not be the goal of the small independent.

I suspect 4K video will have the same success that HD Audio will have. Or that 3D video has had.

I have the AX100 and love it not only for the 4K but also for the 1080 60p which I mainly use. My main issue is the 4K@30p that the AX100 produces which makes it impossible for my sport events. Nevertheless, I really enjoy watching my recent trip to the Grand Canyon in 4K at home. Especially landscapes look gorgeous in 4K and the 30p isn't so much an issue since there is less to no motion. Aside from the workflow and delivery, you need a good system to work on those files or you will be previewing at DRAFT setting.

I have no plans for it, but it will be a gradual succession. As with VHS to DV to HDV, to HD. IMO, 3D will die until it can be watched without those glasses - and by everyone in the room no matter what angle.

And yet I am still delivering DVDs for any of the local shows I record. Can offer blu-ray as they are all recorded in 1080p, but nobody ever elects to take them.

I cannot get people to go from SD-DVD's to Bu-Ray as it is.

Doing Church videos and way back when SD-DVD's were really starting to catch on I was putting my master videos on SD-DVD's and then record them to VHS tapes for those who wanted them. I finally had enough of the huge amount of time this took and told them that starting the next year, all videos will be on DVD's.

They cried and cried and cried about it but I would not budge. So they quickly got themselves a DVD player and within a few months all was great.

Good luck for me to try that trick this time and get them to go to Blu-Ray!

The problem is, the industry is still distributing way too many movies/videos on SD-DVD's. And as long as they are doing so, Blu-Ray will never fully catch-on. This will also hurt the industry with 4k. There is no 4k player out yet that I know of but when there is, will there be another pathetic format war or will the manufacturers finally get their act together and get it right? Time will tell.

Maybe it is time for players to die and have distribution only by the internet. Maybe eventually also with thumb-drives if the price comes down enough.

Meanwhile, I have little incentive to consider 4k. The AX100 is out of my credit range. Maybe that new 4k camera Sony has will meet my needs but then so what? How many years will I have to wait before I can seriously deliver in 4k? And then the next NEW thing or two will be out and it is back to catch-up time again.

And I would have to spend more money to upgrade my computer. Getting way too expensive!

The main reason I got the HDR-CX900 was for the manual controls and mostly the low light capabilities.

While starting with 4k and then going down to SD-DVD gives the best results and a bit of help while editing, there is still the head-ache problem of down-rezzing and so on as has been pointed out very well in other threads. But then 60p is not part of the Blu-Ray spec so the industry blew that one too.

The industry is hurting us and themselves!!!

I am going to pay-off my credit cards and save some money first. So at least 5 years from now and then maybe.

Meanwhile, 2k to SD DVD's or the internet. Thank goodness for Vimeo!!!

I will say, here is what an SD-DVD can do. If you want the best, then Blu-Ray and/or Vimeo.

right now 4k delivery at home appears to be in attached boxes, that come with movies built in, and downloadable from networks, as rental or keepers on the drive. maybe they will release 4K bly-ray discs, but as connected as everyone is - watching Hulu and Netflix (netflix offers 4K now what I read) this generation wont need discs as much,

Certain TVs may allow high speed USB drives to plug in and playback, but I have not had the chance to test that yet. They nearly ALL play HD from USB, but 4K is different.

Personally, I feel 4K has better legs than 3D because A) the quality impressed ME B) doesn't require silly glasses or specific content (I enjoy 3D LOTS, but can easily see how others are put off by the galsses - and what if you invite 10 people over??) and C) Price is the same or less now, so why not.

I'm still having issues rendering to a 4K TV playable format (depending on the maker) but will get there soon. Have to finish editing the production before learning the whole 4K delivery thang. I'm in over my head with that but can dog paddle for decades. :)

there will always be a large number of early adopters (on both sides of the fence - producer / consumer), how quickly this number develops into mainstream is debatable.

b-ray hasn't made any significant inroads into the dvd market in general, and is now threatened by dl and streaming. 3d - well what can one say, here today, gone tomorrow, here today, gone tomorrow, etc.,

i'm sure 4k will become the defacto standard, just as 16:9 superceded 4:3, dvd vhs, etc., but the question is how long will it take?

personally i'm more than happy with hd, 4k's only interest for me is reframing, but there aren't any cameras around that meet MY requirements as yet, and it's unlikely my clients would be in the least bit interested in my providing 4k anyway - none was interested in b-ray and now all our productions end up as mp4 in one form or another...

I was looking for a replacement for my Pioneer plasma panel (1024x768 native resolution) and had to choose between a good 1080 panel and a 4K panel. At this stage, I chose to buy a 4K Sony XBR49X850B. My $1700 has brought me much joy so far. My still pictures are hardly resized at all and display beautifully. I have watched some 4K content from Netflix but there is not enough to make it a real differentiator. 1080 material looks good.

It's not too good to be true though my wife spends a lot of time watching Love Boat re-runs on a 2 mbps stream. That defeats the whole purpose of 4K.

I currently have no plans to buy a 4K video camera or to develop a 4K video workflow.

Do my clients need 4K? Not yet.
Tv stations ask for HD and consumers still ask for DVD's.

Do I want a 4K camera? Yes.
Especially for my motion pictures (able to crop/zoom for FX), and for future archiving.
I love my Sony cams for broadcast work, but for cinema I love the cinematic look and skin tone the EOS series produce.

Untill now the Canon EOS C100 (mark II) was on top of my list.
But now there are rumors that the C300 is going to get a 4K update.
http://www.canonrumors.com/tag/eos-c300/

NAB 2015 will probably reveal many affordable 4K cameras.
I am looking forward. I will be following it online (I live in Europe).

VMP

I'm hangin' out for 16K. After all I had A 16K Sinclair Spectrum over 30 years ago.

geoff

All the same arguments for not going to HDV/HD. Ha Ha!

Poor man's 4K (yeah, some of the stills are out of focus, kind of threw it together):



The future is now...

This has been discussed quite a bit and nothing has changed in past year.

To summarize:

1. 4K is a great acquisition format because it gives you all sorts of new options for delivering better HD.

But ...

2. 4K is a lousy delivery format because there is no practical way to deliver it, nor is there likely to be a good delivery system anytime soon. Non-real-time download followed by playback seems like the only viable option for most folks. Streaming may happen but will be limited to the elite few who have fast connections, and may be limited by Internet providers who don't want their bandwidth eaten up by just a few users.

3. Despite #2, 4K is not going to be the total bust that 3D was. Those who produce feature films, and production houses with huge render farms will definitely embrace it.

4. 4K for viewing in the home is going to be a waste for most people because it has almost zero advantage on monitors under 60", which represents the vast majority of in-home installations. This won't change in the future, because it is a matter of physics and visual acuity, and not a reflection of the current state of the art.

5. I am willing to pay money for things that will save me time, or help me produce better quality. 4K will do the latter, but it will absolutely KILL the former.

Here's the biggest problem with 4K: computer hardware performance improvements now happen at a fraction of the pace they did a decade ago. We have long since seen the end to computer clock speed improvements, and parallelism can only help improve some of the functions involved in acquiring and editing video.

So, for someone like me who edits under a deadline, and where I don't do exotic compositing, 4K won't give me a better HD result, and will take much longer to finish each and every project. Therefore, I have no plans, probably for at least five years, to make any investment in the technology.

Fidave, nice video! The perspective seem to change while the photos are zoomed, did you use something to create distortion? Like the pinch punch tool?

Johnmeyer, that's an interesting point about the end of clock speed improvement.
I have thought about this recently.

http://www.quora.com/Why-havent-CPU-clock-speeds-increased-in-the-last-5-years

https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2014/02/19/why-has-cpu-frequency-ceased-to-grow

VMP

+1 johnmeyer - great summation.

and yes, if / when i can afford a pc powerful enough to edit 4k as i do hdv, THEN i might think about it....

+ Leslie.

It took me a long time to slither towards HD. I doubt I'll have enough time left on this planet, nor financing and therefore workload to consider this 4k pathway as a business model.

4k is completely mesmerizing. I saw it in action on a huge 4k monitor in my local CURRY electrical outlet. We have a real spectacular format, and I can see just what I could do with it. So, mentally I'm ready for it. Will it be part of my medium to longtime view? Sadly, no.

Grazie

All of these same arguments were made by people firmly entrenched in DV when affordable HDV camcorders became available, now the same thing is being said about their beloved HD now that affordable 4k is available. Some people are trailblazers, some aren't.

"4K for viewing in the home is going to be a waste for most people because it has almost zero advantage on monitors under 60", which represents the vast majority of in-home installations."

I used to sit 12-15 feet away from my 32" SD CRT TV because sitting much closer just revealed how bad SD looked. When I went HD, I sat much closer to be able to revel in all that new detail, now that 4k is here, I'm just going to sit that much closer.

Of course, I jumped on HD as soon as it was available and I even enjoy 3D. 4k is great and it will be ubiquitous much sooner than five years from now, even my Samsung Note 4 phone shoots some perfectly decent looking 4k-30p video.

I simply produce home videos - for me and family. My father has bluray, the inlaws SD DVD. But, I am obsessed with PQ.... sure content is the most important, but I'm happy with that. I honestly think that in the next year, certainly within 2, the enthusiast will be fully on the 4K bandwagon.

I remember using my old Panny GS500 mini DV and saying to myself that this is broadcast quality..... boy was I shocked when I went to HD. Some of the 4 K footage I've seen on 4K sets looks surreal - beyond real. I'm aware these are promo bits shot and edited on pro systems to really show what it can do, but for me that is jaw dropping.

I'm no early adopter, but as soon as it has lost those teething problems and format has levelled, I shall be right on it.

"4k is completely mesmerizing. I saw it in action on a huge 4k monitor in my local CURRY electrical outlet."

"4 K footage I've seen on 4K sets looks surreal - beyond real. I'm aware these are promo bits shot and edited on pro systems to really show what it can do, but for me that is jaw dropping."

^^^ This. As more and more people see it with their own eyes, there will be more interest. Yep, it will be slow, but will get there.

I, also am not in favor of chucking my $3500 HD TV investment, that still looks fantastic, just to jump on the 4K TV wagon, but if I were buying new, no reason not to with prices like they are.

I bought my computer to edit HD, but just enough more power that it works "pretty ok" with 4K footage directly in Vegas. I could always convert to proxy files if needed.

Just simple pan/zoom on stills from Panasonic GH2 w/ 25mm Pana-Leica f1.4

wwjd: "I bought my computer to edit HD, but just enough more power that it works "pretty ok" with 4K footage directly in Vegas. I could always convert to proxy files if needed."

This is exactly the boat I was in on the SD>HD jump. My old PC cut through SD like butter...... Moved to 1080 50p footage and it worked OK. When I started adding effects, neat video , mercalli, colour correction, twixtor, boy oh boy did it slow...... This resulted in my £700 HD camcorder costing a further £1.5K for a kick ass new PC. Now this new PC cuts through my HD like butter........ 4K video.... you can see where this is going!