Subject:Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Posted by: malvern09

Date:7/30/2014 6:25:49 AM

I've just finished editing four days of recordings (all at 24bit/192kHz) for eventual CD release (and possibly as hi-res downloads). The Sound Forge projects play perfectly, and 16bit/44.1kHz renders are fine, but 24/192 renders have frequent (every minute or two) gaps (not related to the original edit positions). Any ideas? (The computer is a Dell, with Athlon dual-core processor, running at 2.8GHz, 4G RAM, with Windows 7/32bit) Any suggestions in non-computer-geek speak please!

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: rraud

Date:7/30/2014 9:30:39 AM

Assuming this is a playback issue and the rendered waveforms appear intact.. another program(s) may be hogging resources. Exit all programs including anti-virus and see if that makes a difference. It it does, exit a program one at a time to ID the offender.
OTOH, you could try changing the device type and/or the PB buffer setting. "Options> Preferences> Audio> Playback"

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:7/30/2014 10:28:45 AM

Whatever the cause (sound driver buffers?), I hope you understand you will not be delivering 24/192k as audio CD's.
Your workaround is to master at 16/44k now.

You didn't mention what sound interface and drivers you are using (important), but the machine itself may be a bit of a lightweight. I also didn't understand if your playback problems were in Sound Forge or a desktop player, or if you had tried playing them on another machine.

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: malvern09

Date:7/31/2014 5:02:23 AM

Yes, I know the CD master will obviously be 16/44.1, but I would like to end up with a fully hi-res master (for possible FLAC downloads) as well as the down-sampled CD. All material was loaded in from CF cards (WAV files, direct from my Tascam DA3000). To clarify, once edited in SF, the 24/192 sound forge files play perfectly in SF (via the optical output of the Soundblaster card, to a Benchmark DAC1 headphone amp). 16/44.1 renders of these files (played in SF, or burnt to CD and played on my hi-fi system) also play perfectly. It is only the 24/192 WAV renders (yes, the 4GB limit has been disabled), whether played directly in SF (via the same Benchmark monitoring chain), or copied to DVDR and played via a Teac PD501HR, which have the gap problems.
Still hoping there is something obvious I've missed....

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: rraud

Date:7/31/2014 9:27:39 AM

So you're saying the 192kHz file has the same gaps on the Teac player, which is a separate device and not connected to the PC?

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: malvern09

Date:8/3/2014 4:03:42 AM

Yes. I heard the gaps on the DVDR (played on the Teac, which is happy to play WAV files up to 24/192) first and assumed the problem was the player or the disc, but when I went back to the renders on the PC, the same gaps were there...

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: rraud

Date:8/3/2014 11:05:00 AM

I assume when opened in SF, the gaps are not visible in the waveform?
How large are the individual 192k wave files?to PT
Even on high-res releases, 192kHz is rare (and overkill IMO) I heard of many folks record in that format that (original multi-track recoding) Same goes for analog, then transferred DAW.

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: malvern09

Date:8/4/2014 7:33:41 AM

When the render is opened in SF, yes, the gaps are visible in the waveform. Just made a discovery though - these gaps are happening where there is an asymmetric crossfade at the edit point i.e. where the previous region has fully faded out before the next region is fully faded in - and the gap (silence) is the same length as the time from full fadeout to full fade-in.
OK, so I now know how to avoid it, but why is this causing a problem with renders? (and why only 192 renders? - 44.1 is fine!) It plays perfectly well in the original SF project, and this is precisely the sort of editing flexibility I chose SF Pro10 for.
Hope this additional info helps. I can still keep my edits and play the SF project out digitally to my Tascam DA3000 - but would be in real time - and anyway, I shouldn't have to!

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: rraud

Date:8/4/2014 9:19:39 AM

Something to try, which may yield a clue.
Change the file's extension to <.raw>
Have you tried re-rendering the file in SF with the same parameters?
I think this may have something to do with the Tascam file structure.

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: malvern09

Date:8/4/2014 8:03:36 PM

Sorry, I'm being a bit thick here. Which file extension - the frg or the wav render? The Tascam files should just be standard wav.
One other clue I noticed - looking at the waveform around the gaps in the render, the envelope seems to show the fade-out of the outgoing region, but the incoming region cuts in full-level (after the gap) - i.e. the render doesn't seem to pick up the fade-in of the incoming region... And still can't puzzle out why these edits should play perfectly in the frg project and in 16/44.1 renders...

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: rraud

Date:8/5/2014 8:14:51 AM

I suspect something with the Tascam file is causing playback issues.
Try changing the extension of the Tascam wave file from <.wav> to <.raw>, it does NOT in any way transcode or change the original file.. BTW, the RAW audio format will only playback on a few applications, SF Pro being one of them.Then re-save that file to 192/24 as a normal Wave.

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: malvern09

Date:8/6/2014 9:26:22 AM

Now trying the same problem with the official Tech Support, so let's see if they come up with anything useful....

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: rraud

Date:8/6/2014 10:38:49 AM

It may take a while, so don't hold yo' breath.

Subject:RE: Rendering 192kHz files in Sound Forge Pro10

Reply by: malvern09

Date:9/15/2014 6:51:02 PM

Just about run out of breath! But the answer after much back & forth with Tech Support is that this is indeed a bug in the software, which may or may not get fixed in some future update...