Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Posted by: MarkHolmes

Date:5/30/2014 11:29:00 PM

But I would love to hear this discussion - once Resolve 11 is released some time next month.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: Marc S

Date:5/31/2014 1:23:27 AM

Another interesting move by Blackmagic. I love the idea of a top notch color correction program with full editing capability. Would also love to see Vegas develop their CC tools more. It's been years since we had any improvements in this area.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: ushere

Date:5/31/2014 2:40:36 AM

'full' editing facilities?

like vegas's 'full' colour correction tools?

will be most interested to learn more.

btw. not knocking either product, i use both, but i'm wary of hyperbole.....

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: Marc S

Date:5/31/2014 11:51:43 AM

There is a video on this page which goes through a lot of the editing features.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/edit

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: ushere

Date:5/31/2014 6:50:14 PM

funny, missed that, thanks...

looks interesting, well thought out, but, i think i'd be unlikely to try it until there was some considerable feed back in.

i found cc'ing in davinci (once i understood their methodology) quite easy and extremely powerful, but to be honest, my work just doesn't require THAT level of grading (nor has the budget for it most of the time).

i've found over the years that the more facilities software offers me the more time i waste learning it (or trying to) only to realise it's either not really needed or as often the case, not really much more than a sophisticated 'interfaces' to existing controls, such as curves, levels, gradients, etc., etc.,

for instance, vegas has a plethora of built in titlers plus additional 3rd party ones, but having tried them all i still find myself using ps to create titles and in most cases vegas's own fx / pan/crop to bring them in/out...

much too old for all this....

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: Marc S

Date:5/31/2014 10:07:35 PM

I played with Davinci Resolve lite today and was able to get output via my Intensity Pro card. The first thing I noticed was how amazingly clean the color correction was when using a feathered power mask. No banding whatsoever and the CC tools are so deep I could really see using this software for certain narrative type projects. Once they have full featured editing within the program it will be that much better. And the lite version seems to contain most of the features I will ever need. Also uses open FX so my New Blue plugins were available. Playback is not as fast as Vegas and requirements seem to be much higher. Did I mention it was free?

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: violet

Date:5/31/2014 11:32:31 PM

Well I am downloading the free lite version to see how it performs. Having watched the Resolve v11 video it certainly has some interesting features like a single use tool (a bit lot Sonar's Magic tool that does have its limitations).

The editing looks very slick, things like Bézier curves is an interesting addition. Naturally you are only going to see the wow factors and ease of edit, no clip on colour correction.

I have been with vegas forever, but looking at Resolve 11 you have to admit the GUI and some edit techniques make Vegas Pro 12 (haven''t yet decided on upgrading to 13) look rather dated. I admit GUIs are part cosmetic and part practicality, nonetheless, surely sony creative software have an eye on the other edit programs and would consider adopting some of the better ideas.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: ushere

Date:6/1/2014 7:14:00 AM

btw - it isn't released till sometime this month - the only dl available at present is for 10.1.5, which lacks any comprehensive editing facilities.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: Marc S

Date:6/1/2014 12:11:56 PM

I've been playing around with version 10 some more:

1. It does have pan/crop and zoom with keyframing though it needs a better way to view keyframes that have been placed. It will be interesting to see how 11 improves things as it definitely feels underdeveloped.

2. Slow motion seems to be of very good quality but I have not done any test renders yet.

3. I could see wanting the noise reduction of the paid dongle version since when you grade noise can pop up especially with non-raw footage. Note: A dongle full version is included with the Cinema Cameras.

4. Realtime playback is not as good as Vegas but acceptable.

5. Color correction tools are absolutely AMAZING!

6. There are some wierd things that can really trip you up. For example when you first start a project in Windows version you will not see any drives except for the system. To solve you have to click on the upper left Davinci Resolve text and go to preferences to add drives. Also you can't just drag a clip to the timeline window. You have to create an empty timeline first.

7. If Blackmagic puts out a stable 11 release this could be a real gamechanger in the NLE world considering their free version is so fully featured. I wonder what Adobe is thinking right now. I imagine film and video students will be using this a lot because despite missing noise reduction most of the other features appear to be available unless you care about 3d or 4K output.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: GeeBax

Date:6/1/2014 6:26:50 PM

I use both Resolve and Vegas 13, however I think we tend to overlook the huge number of features that Vegas incorporates, and there are nowhere near the number of features in Resolve at present and, very likely, not going to be in release 11. I doubt Resolve will come within a country mile of the audio features in Vegas, for example.

Yes, the colour correction tools are amazing in Resolve, but you would expect that, it is after all the world's favourite CC system, and has been around for decades. Originally it would have set you back around $1.3M to buy.

I am tempted by Resolve because it means I could grade my RAW footage inside Resolve and if the edit functionality is good, then I do not have to leave Resolve to finish my project.

But the titling shown in the demo is extremely basic and nowhere near good enough for me. I contacted New Blue to ask if they might be offering a titling plug-in for Resolve and they said they had been in some discussions, but nothing eventuated.

Blackmagic have not demonstrated a very good attitude towards fixing problems with their products of recent times, so I remain sceptical of what will happen with Resolve 11. I also extremely dislike the 'Apple' GUI, you cannot minimise the application once open to look at your desktop, and the whole thing is not very intuitive.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: ushere

Date:6/1/2014 6:56:27 PM

doesn't win key + d bring you to desktop? i'd try but when i reinstalled everything on my new pc i didn't bother doing so with resolve - having decided that it was way too much for the projects i work on.

i suspect geebax is right when he say's the audio, let alone titling isn't going to be what we'd expect / need.

however, i do see this as a very comprehensive system geared towards 'feature' style production, long form doco, and other productions where all that's really needed is a 'simple' tl with comprehensive 'film' tools, etc

i shall certainly dl the free version of 11 just to give it a whirl....

btw, earlier on i wrote i'd wait till the first reports were in, and still stand by that. unfortunately as many have pointed out, bm does seem to rush ahead with rarely a backward glance at known problems...

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: GeeBax

Date:6/1/2014 9:08:07 PM

Leslie, yes, you are right. Win Key + d does do that. However I am too lazy to remember those commands, so my fault. But there is no minimise menu option within the program, and I find that quite poor because it means it is not a well devised implementation of the Windows interface.

But there is no penalty in trying out the free Lite Version....

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: gsealy

Date:6/4/2014 10:13:38 AM

I have been doing a lot of research around color grading lately especially with using the Cinestyle profile or Canon C Log Apple Pro Res 422 files (from the Ninja-2). By most accounts DaVinci is considered the standard as far as color grading goes. Yet I am very comfortable and like the Sony Vegas Pro Edit software. It has taken a while to learn about and use the SVP features and settings so I am not inclined to change.

It doesn't seem as though there is a good interface between DaVinci and SVP. I don't see good round tripping results either from various posters on a number of forums. It seems as though people are experiencing a number of software issues and hangups when trying to export/import the various project files between the two systems.

Given all that my current workflow plan is to use SVP 13 as the basic editor. Once I decide on the clips that I want to use, then I will take the original APR 422 files and import them into DaVinci, clip them down, and grade them. I understand that I can then render them in a format that will not lose any quality and can be imported into SVP for use on the timeline and substitute for the ungraded clips.

Any comments are most welcome. A lot of people are very unsure of what can be done. But right now I don't see any other sure fire, solid, way to use the DaVinci tools with SVP.

Subject:RE: Davinci vs Vegas 13

Reply by: Marc S

Date:6/4/2014 12:56:48 PM

I have not tried this yet but this workflow seems doable.

http://vimeo.com/63628322