Sync cameras - Android app ? (clap board sub)

fosko wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:00 AM

Does anyone know of a good Andoird app I can use in my phone or tablet to sync my tracks. A lot of what I do are recitals with multiple camera, so the individual tracks need to be PRECISELY synced. (I generally use an external recorder for the audio... so minimum 3 audio tracks).

In the mean time what I may try is my cel phone camera. It has a flash and makes a sound when taking a pic. Idealy it would be nice to have something visual and audio, but I don't know that you can view multiple video tracks in Vegas. I know about the multi-cam thing... but then you can't move them on the time line to sync them. So for now (and my knowledge) I'll go with visually, manually syncing audio of the locked video track.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:19 AM

PluralEyes for PC is just what you need.
Note that even synced, device drift is a problem that you may need to deal with separately.

In the days before PE, I used a Seiko metronome, which was loud and had a bright flashing LED.

fosko wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:26 AM

Yeah.. the Seiko concept is what I was going for. Right after I posted this I did a seach and saw something about PluralEyes. Never heard of it before but I'm getting ready to read up on it now. One issue is cost (android apps are generally free :-) )

Arthur.S wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:30 AM

"but then you can't move them on the time line to sync them".

You sync up BEFORE you go to multicam. A camera flash is actually a very good free aid to syncing. It's what I used before Plural Eyes. Which, while not infallible, is one of my fave Vegas plugins. Saved me literally hours of work in the past.

fosko wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:36 AM

But how do I see Multiple video tracks without MultiCam ?

Former user wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:37 AM

Here is how I do it.

Find my main video and put it on the timeline. Find the flash and make a MARK.

Put my next video on another track on the timeline. Trim it up to the FLASH frame. Place that flash frame in sync with the Mark. (you made need to temporarily mute the first track).

repeat for other tracks.

fosko wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:42 AM

GOTCHA !
Someone else suggested playing with the oppacity on the tracks so I can kinda of see both at the same time.

In the mean time... I'm REALLY interested in thie Pluraleyes . Sounds like it's a more accurate and time effecient way to go!

musicvid10 wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:50 AM

Always copy all your audio to new tracks before entering multicam edit mode. That way they're there when you need them.

fosko wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:54 AM

Thanks for the tip Musicvid10!
(why would they not be there ?)

musicvid10 wrote on 5/15/2014, 11:08 AM

Because they all get transferred to the multicam track when you create it. No copies are left behind unless you create them first.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/15/2014, 11:13 AM

I use track motion to move the individual tracks around the screen and sync them up. Once I make a multicam track the track motion will be reset anyway. I have pesets for that like UL (upper left) and so on; it basically looks like a multicam preview window.

riredale wrote on 5/15/2014, 11:39 AM

That's right, I've built presets years ago to put tracks in the four corners of the preview window. Then I build my output video track by just going along the timeline, selecting which camera and doing a series of split/copy/pastes into that output track. It's kinda fun to sync up with a flash from the audience, though I find it curious how bright the flash might appear from one camera angle and yet barely noticeable from another.

Now Pluraleyes gives another way to do it, but keep in mind that you will have to manually advance distant camera footage after syncing because sound travels slowly. About 40 feet for one frame, I recall.

Tim L wrote on 5/15/2014, 11:54 AM

@musicvid Because they all get transferred to the multicam track when you create it. No copies are left behind unless you create them first

I'm not anywhere near a computer with Vegas installed, but I think there is an option relating to Multi-Cam (Vegas' built-in version) that lets you leave all the audio tracks where they are, and make a multi-cam track only from the selected video tracks. I'm pretty sure that's how it works for me. (But, I'm not 100% sure...)

Arthur.S wrote on 5/15/2014, 3:10 PM

"No copies are left behind unless you create them first."

Am I missing something here? Since when did Vegas destroy files??? The originals are always there aren't they?

I regularly use multicam with 3 cams, plus 2 other audio sources. After syncing all of them up, I just choose the 3 videos plus the main audio for the multicam edit. Do the cuts, then 'expand to multiple tracks', and edit how I want the audio to sound with the rest of the tracks. If you right click on any video event and choose 'open in trimmer' you can then drag the audio from the video that's NOT been used for the multicam edit to the TL in perfect sync, then drag it out to the end of the project. You've now got all of your original audio sources to play with.

Arthur.S wrote on 5/15/2014, 3:16 PM

"But how do I see Multiple video tracks without MultiCam ?" You don't really need to. Look for the flash or listen for the sound (Clap etc) roughly line them up, then nudge one or the other with the arrow keys while playing until you hear an echo, then nudge until the echo goes. That's about as close a sync as you'll ever need. To get even more accuracy, turn off 'quantize to frames'. (Don't forget to turn back on afterwards though. ;-) )

Try this tutorial:

Tom Pauncz wrote on 5/15/2014, 3:50 PM

+1 for PluralEyes. Best piece of SW in my arsenal for multi-camera syncs.
Tom

GeeBax wrote on 5/15/2014, 6:41 PM

I use at least 3 separate sources when shooting, and I use a sync device on my home-made clapper board that simply consists of a Sonalert or in other words, a high powered piezo-electric beeper, plus a small cluster of high-brightness LEDS. It is all powered by a small 9 volt battery and has a trigger switch.

When I come to working with these in Vegas 13, it is dead easy to sync up the tracks using this device, in fact Vegas seems to have a tendency to jump to the nearest sync point when moving the tracks.

I had thought about using PluralEyes, but I now find it dead easy to do in Vegas without it.

ushere wrote on 5/15/2014, 7:28 PM

i'm with geebax on this.

camera flash / beeper, and at a stretch i've used a football whistle.

i've got pe, and as good as it is, it's no where as quick as simply sliding tracks to a marker.

PeterWright wrote on 5/15/2014, 7:38 PM

I synch by listening for a distinctive beat in the music from one audio track and putting in a marker.

Then I find the same point on each of the other tracks, and move that moment to the marker.

I never involve audio tracks when creating Multicam track - video only, then that leaves me free to mix the audio as I like.

If, after completing the multicam edit I find anything appears out of synch, I correct this by slipping the event.

musicvid10 wrote on 5/15/2014, 10:49 PM

Sorry guys, I mix my audio.
I also copy the synced video tracks.

fosko wrote on 5/16/2014, 12:06 PM

My plan was to go with the method GeeBox mentioned - setting an audible spike and a flash. (so far I've just been finding a spot/peak in the audio and lining it up).. The issue I run into is sometimes the cameras will start and stop. Can't always send out an audio or visual signal to sync to. There's always an external audio and generally one camera rolling constantly to capture the wide shot. Others may come in and out. This is where I thought PE would be of use.

Arthur.S wrote on 5/16/2014, 1:39 PM

Exact same reason I bought into PE. The older version 2.0 seems to get the thumbs up from most.

"and at a stretch i've used a football whistle."

Man....I'd PAY to see peoples faces if I used that at a wedding! :-)

musicvid10 wrote on 5/16/2014, 3:10 PM

You should leave the cameras running except for card/tape change.
But PluralEyes is a good option.
Best solution, of course, is cameras that are Genlocked and Freerun T/C Synced.

richard-amirault wrote on 5/16/2014, 4:56 PM

i've got pe, and as good as it is, it's no where as quick as simply sliding tracks to a marker.

Good if all cameras are all continuous takes, but if some are started and stopped during the event PluralEyes may be faster and easier.

Also depending on how long the takes are .. even if you sync at the beginning the cameras may drift (possibly at different rates) and you may need to re-sync further down the timeline.

K-Decisive wrote on 5/22/2014, 2:37 PM

We usually just just clap our hands and call out the shot and take as needed. IF we have a slate it works just as good. Makes a nice huge spike on both the camera and master audio tracks that you can line up without even listening to half the time. I have a utility I wrote that allows me to edit the video, hand sync the audio to the takes in another project, then syncs the audio using Vegas EDLs. more manual but a hell of a lot faster then using Plural Eyes.

I had a bad experience with PE when I tried it out. Took forever, you had to feed it material in groups for it to even be manageable. Even then it would only work about 80% of the time. plus it would randomly be off by + or - a frame or so. This was when it was first released, if it's working better now for people then that's great.

2C