Correct render for Youtube

tfer2 wrote on 2/6/2014, 10:47 AM
Resolution
1280 x 720
I prefer to save the edited video to my hard drive and then upload it to Youtube. The last one I did this with ended up with letter box black stripes and a smaller actual video.
The video I made with VMS11used the setting "internet 1280x720 30fps"had these specs:

Resolution
1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio
1.7778
Format
H264
Bitrate
14014 kbps
Frames per second
29.970
Selected codec
ffh264

I then searched around on the internet and one guy said it must be 1280 by 720 so I re-rendered it to:

Resolution
1280 x 720

Aspect ratio
1.7778
Format
H264
Bitrate
6865 kbps
Frames per second
29.970
Selected codec
ffh264

It still has letterbox. How can I avoid this? Also the original file was a MOV file. Could someone suggest how to render back to this format? I don't see that as an option in my VMS11. Thanks

Comments

Steve Grisetti wrote on 2/6/2014, 11:37 AM
Your Aspect Ratio for high-def video should not be 1.7778. It should be square pixels (1.0).

Why not just use Match Project Settings to Media to set up your project properties and then use Render As Sony AVC with the 1280x720 Internet template to output your video?
tfer2 wrote on 2/6/2014, 1:34 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. Your answer led me to my first error. The problem was right at the beginning. I didn't select internet video then. I selected DV . Then, when I went to render it the "match project settings" didn't have the right options.
With this in mind I redid the whole thing selecting "internet video" and "internet (HD)" at the beginning and "match project " at the end when rendering. These are the specs of the video that came out.
Resolution
1280 x 720
Aspect ratio
1.7778
Format
H264
Bitrate
6733 kbps
Frames per second
29.970
Selected codec
ffh264
Underneath it it said:
"Use this setting to create a higher quality 16:9 file suitable for uploading to Internet sites.
Audio: 128 Kbps, 48,000 Hz, 32 Bit, Stereo, AAC
Video: 29.970 fps, 1280x720 Progressive, YUV, 8 Mbps
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.000"

Unfortunately it was still in letterbox format. I just realized that the original MOV files are also letterboxed but my video player defaults to "no aspect ratio". When I unchecked that I saw that. I would like it to fill the entire screen disregarding the original aspect ratio when rendering so it will use all available screen space on Youtube.
Steve Grisetti wrote on 2/6/2014, 4:22 PM
Why don't you use the Match Project Settings to Media tool?

You are still setting your project up with a 1.7778 aspect ratio. Using this tool should set up a project for 1.0.
tfer2 wrote on 2/6/2014, 5:26 PM
Do you mean the "match media settings" at the start in the "new project" window? I had already checked "match project settings" at the end in the Render window. It still left the video letterboxed.
I just tried that but now in the render window it says "No template selected."
Again I hope to make an overall adjustment that makes the video (which is actually originally letterbox aspect ratio) take up the whole Youtube screen when the final movie is rendered. The original mov file is:

Resolution
1280 x 720
Aspect ratio
1.77778

Thanks
Chienworks wrote on 2/6/2014, 6:30 PM
I'm guessing that 1.77778 refers to Frame Aspect Ration (FAR), rather than Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR). These are easy to confuse with each other with disastrous results. A 1280x720 frame is indeed 1.77778 times as wide as it is tall, but is made of pixels with a 1.0 ratio (square). The template settings are all based on PAR, not FAR, so the correct value for the PAR is 1.0.

Setting the "aspect ratio" in the template to 1.77778 tells Vegas that you want to use a frame in the shape of 2276x720, which it then shrinks to 1280x405 to fit in a 1280x720 frame, leaving 315 vertical pixels of black to be split above and below the image.
tfer2 wrote on 2/6/2014, 7:12 PM
I've never manually set the aspect ratio. I don't know where I would do that? I've just been doing my best to pick out the correct presets. Although these answers seem to be moving me in the right direction I still don't know the next step to get the video to take up the whole screen. Since this is my main camera I'll generally be seeing the same size MOV files when I use Vegas.
musicvid10 wrote on 2/6/2014, 10:09 PM
Post the MediaInfo for your SOURCE, not your render, please.
tfer2 wrote on 2/6/2014, 10:24 PM
These are the specifications from the source. The original MOV file from the camera:
Video
Resolution
1280 x 720
Aspect ratio
1.77778
Format
H264
Bitrate
22996 kbps
Frames per second
30.000
Selected codec
ffh264
musicvid10 wrote on 2/6/2014, 11:35 PM
That's not a MediaInfo report. MediaInfo is a free download from SourceForge.
Next, compare those readings with your Media Properties in Vegas. You do this by right-clicking on the file icon in the Project Media window.

1.778 is a DAR number, not PAR. Two entirely different things.
There is not a standards-compliant 1280x720 video in existence that is anything other than 1.0 PAR. That one is etched in stone.

Not doubting your word, but different utilities report flags differently, and Vegas "does" get the aspect wrong once in a blue moon.
tfer2 wrote on 2/7/2014, 12:18 AM
OK. I downloaded Mediainfo. These are figures for the source file:
General
Complete name : F:\DCIM\116CANON\MVI_8806.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 1.12 GiB
Duration : 6mn 46s
Overall bit rate : 23.7 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-02-05 16:29:16
Tagged date : UTC 2014-02-05 16:29:16

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 6mn 46s
Bit rate : 23.0 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.832
Stream size : 1.09 GiB (97%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-02-05 16:29:16
Tagged date : UTC 2014-02-05 16:29:16
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 6mn 46s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 705.6 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 34.2 MiB (3%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-02-05 16:29:16
Tagged date : UTC 2014-02-05 16:29:16

In VMS11properties shows:
Streams
Video: 00:06:46.433, 30.000 fps progressive, 1280x720x12, AVC
Audio: 00:06:46.433, 44,100 Hz, Mono, PCM
...
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0000 (Square)
musicvid10 wrote on 2/7/2014, 12:46 AM
All correct and as expected.
The Youtube template should be giving you correct aspect.
Got: a screensht?
tfer2 wrote on 2/7/2014, 3:19 PM
Although I appreciate the responses which help me learn some things maybe this topic has gotten away from my original question. My source video file is letterboxed. I don't want the same aspect ratio in the final youtube video. I don't want the video in half the screen. I want it to use all of the screen. Also I don't care to directly render the video to Youtube for several reasons. 1)I'd just assume not send my login info etc to any more places than necessary and 2) there's no option to make the video unlisted. It's either public or private. I'm not so well versed in the technical aspects of video editing so a simple solution would be appreciated. Thanks.
Chienworks wrote on 2/7/2014, 4:10 PM
Ahhhhh, i don't think you've mentioned before that your source video is letterboxed. That could be why none of us were telling you what you wanted to hear, because you didn't ask the right question.

So what is it you're looking to create? A video that's still 1280 wide and perhaps only 405 tall instead of 720 high? That may not be possible for YouTube. Or do you want to crop the center 720x405 out of it and lose the left & right sides?
OhMyGosh wrote on 2/8/2014, 10:44 AM
Hey Musicvid, you always ask for people to show you what mediainfo says. What are you looking for, and what do you see in all that junk that helps you help them? Not that I could understand, but have always wondered. Thanks. Cin
musicvid10 wrote on 2/8/2014, 12:16 PM
I didn't see you mention "letterboxed." That = "gamechanger."

You can crop to fit the YT player aspect, or you can leave it letterboxed. I always do the latter.
Best.
tfer2 wrote on 2/8/2014, 2:55 PM
I did mention that it being letterboxed was what was bothering me in the first post. I personally always tend to avoid it wherever possible. In general my videos are always wider than they are high. The video players I use for my personal viewing, smplayer and vlc player, both have aspect ratio disabled as default and that suits me better. If a video is letterboxed sometimes it's using only half of an already small screen. Avoiding this both lets me see better and it also looks more realistic as I find the black parts distracting for both videos and photos.
If I have many source videos it would be a major nuisance to have to crop each of them exactly the same. The solution I look for is someone who has more video editing experience than me to tell me if it's possible to do this in the render phase rather than cropping. I'm just looking at a page from youtube on this subject but don't understand how to apply it to my version of Vegas Movie 11.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en
Thanks
musicvid10 wrote on 2/8/2014, 5:20 PM
"The last one I did this with

That's a communication problem. You didn't say it started out as letterboxed . . .
Either way, the advice stands. You can crop or leave it alone. Best.
tfer2 wrote on 2/8/2014, 9:17 PM
" i don't think you've mentioned before that your source video is letterboxed."

Sorry about that, actually I didn't realize myself the source video was letterboxed until midway through this posting. I had forgotten I had set smplayer to automatically fill the screen by disabling aspect ratio. This free program seems to do that effortlessly as does another favorite (and free) program I use for photos: Irfan View.
So if someone has further advice to fix this problem in the render stage or on Youtube I'll be happy to know. Thanks
Chienworks wrote on 2/8/2014, 11:58 PM
'Tis been my experience that even if you rendered to a file that didn't have the letter boxing, youtube will add it back in anyway. Youtube seems to always adjust the files to be either 16:9 or 4:3. So, your only choice for full frame would be to render to one of those sizes, which would mean cropping not only the top & bottom black bars, but also a good portion of your material on the left & right sides too.
Warper wrote on 2/10/2014, 6:31 AM
You can remove setting Lock Aspect Ratio in properties of events. You can even select all videoevents and do one click.
tfer2 wrote on 2/11/2014, 4:13 PM
"Tis been my experience that even if you rendered to a file that didn't have the letter boxing, youtube will add it back in anyway. Youtube seems to always adjust the files to be either 16:9 or 4:3. So, your only choice for full frame would be to render to one of those sizes, which would mean cropping not only the top & bottom black bars, but also a good portion of your material on the left & right sides too. "
"You can remove setting Lock Aspect Ratio in properties of events. "
Thanks for the comments. I had tried unchecking Lock Aspect Ratio but it didn't change the overall size as far as I can tell. I tried inserting "yt:stretch=16:9" first and then "yt:crop=16:9" with no effect. .I also experimented with cropping but never did get a completely letterbox free video either in Vegas or Youtube. It's frustrating because I view letterbox free video nearly everyday on my own pc video players.
By the way. Maybe it's just Youtube and Google being inflexible because there are other streaming sites that show true full screen. One of them is Ustream. A (charming) example :
http://www.ustream.tv/eagles4kids

Top to bottom full screen with a pop up command bar at the bottom if you go there with your cursor.