Subject:SF Mac 2.0??

Posted by: ComoD

Date:1/9/2014 9:47:39 PM

I'm not coming to the forum to complain, however I'm (as well as most, if not all of you) am disappointed with Sony on the release of Sound Forge for the Mac.

I've been a loyal SF user on the PC since version 4.0 (so that's now over 12 years) and have seen it from being a destructive editor to non-destructive editor, adding in CD burning functions, et al. The PC version is still the very best editor there is and it's just awesome...

When SF for the Mac was released, I am in awe! I couldn't wait for it to be released... Then the day it came out, I immediately purchased it. What I was expecting was something really on-par with the PC version. What I had gotten (scratch that, what _we_ had gotten) is a simple bare-bones editor, on par with a SF version prior to 4.0 on the PC. (I recall using SF 4 and it did MUCH more than SF Mac 1.0.)

The main gripe is that I predominantly work with FLAC files (I'm a DJ and use FLAC as my preferred format with Virtual DJ), however the Mac version doesn't support FLAC. I need to convert the file to AIFF, do my edits, and then convert it back. (It's lossless, so I'm not concerned with quality, however it's just a time consuming workflow which is unnecessary.)

Day 1 I was impressed with SF and that it actually worked on my Mac. (I used TwistedWave on my Mac for a bit.) However, after a few weeks and even a few months, updates were far and few between and they were bug fixes, not feature adds or improvements.

So my question is, will Sony release a SF 2.0 for the Mac, and if so, will they give it to the 1.0 users for free that they took advantage of? (For the most part, I can't use it. I run vmFusion on my Mac so I can still run the PC version.) - If they don't do a 2.0, then will they offer us a free cross grade to the latest PC version?

Get it together Sony!

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:1/10/2014 9:24:45 AM

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, no one can answer your questions because Sony doesn't comment on future plans and those who know are under NDA to not disclose and those who don't know are just speculating. But it is a fun topic so allow me to speculate with you for a moment: ;-)

> "What I was expecting was something really on-par with the PC version. What I had gotten (scratch that, what _we_ had gotten) is a simple bare-bones editor, on par with a SF version prior to 4.0 on the PC. (I recall using SF 4 and it did MUCH more than SF Mac 1.0.)"

I'm a Sound Forge for Mac customer just like you but I'm also a software developer. Let me tell you a bit about the new methodology in software development. It's called Agile Development and it's based on releasing a "Minimum Viable Product" (MVP) and then continuously improving on it based on customer feedback. It doesn't have to be perfect because you are going to incrementally make it better and better and better, very quickly. I had the pleasure to meet and talk with some of the Sony development team when I was out at NAB 2013 last year and I know that they are now using Agile development and striving to create new releases and improvements quickly.

As you may know, Sound Forge for Mac is a completely new program written from the ground up to take advantage of the OS X platform. It looks nothing like Sound Forge for PC and that's a good thing. IMHO the worst thing Sony could have done was "port" the SF for PC code to the Mac and then spend years debugging it because, as you might imagine, a version 10.0 program has a LOT of code in it that may or may not work well on a new operating system.

As a customer, I too was disappointed by the lack of features in the initial release but I have a feeling this is just the beginning. Just like Apple released FCP X and caused quite a commotion that it didn't have all the features of FCP 7, sometimes you just need to wipe the slate clean and take a new approach. Now FCP X 10.1 is a very powerful NLE with many of the originally missing features replaced with even better implementations (take a look at how they now handle multi-camera, or the trackless magnetic timeline... it's brilliant!) ...but I digress.

Now this is just speculation, but I'm guessing that Sony has given us the basis for building Sound Forge for Mac into just as powerful an audio editor as Sound Forge for PC... maybe even better! It is not cheap to decide to support a new operating system. I don't think Sony would have made such a huge investment in development to only have one release. But you can't expect version 1.0 of a product to have all of the features as version 10.0. That would have taken too long to produce. I'm glad that Sony was bold enough to release what they know in their heart is less that SF 10 but still a very capable audio editor for the Mac.

Again, this is all speculation on my part as a software developer but the trend to release something "early and often" is being implemented by a lot of software companies. It makes perfect sense that Sony would follow this trend as well but we'll all have to just wait and see. At least I'm hoping along with you for an even better SF Mac 2.0. :-)

~jr

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: ComoD

Date:1/10/2014 11:18:50 AM

I've been using this forum for about 10+ years, so I know the drill about Sony. They rarely read this, and more rarely will comment. (Comments could be considered forward looking statements, which may indicate plans, and plans change.) - I was merely trying to see if my fellow 'forumers' felt the same way, and it looks like they general do.

I'm actually a software developer as well and actually am certified to teach Scrum and Agile development methodology. Being that most software companies do this now, I would have imagined that Sony was along for the same ride.

Now, there's a difference between iteration and public releases. Being that I'm a game developer, we start with an engine, and then iterate game features and content. Based on what Sony has given us with SF Mac 1.0, that would be the equivalent to me releasing a $60.00 Xbox or Playstation title with a single level, perhaps a single protagonist, and maybe 3 enemies... (SPECULATION FOLLOWING...) - And then telling my customer base that if they wanted more functionality, they'd need to purchase the sequel, for perhaps 75% of the cost of the initial investment.

Do I agree that SF Mac 1.0 is a great product, yes... Do I wish that they'd 'port' SF PC 11.x to Mac, NO! It just looks like a number of pretty common things that made SF PC great were overlooked. (FLAC support? Where's the FLAC support??)

I feel baited... Essentially, I know that this year or maybe next, Sony will have a new version, perhaps 2.0, that offers us a bunch more functionality (perhaps most that should have been in 1.0), and then asks us for more money for the upgrade. (If 2.0 was going to be free or minimal ($20.00), then I'd give them a pass. However, that's just wishful thinking which generally doesn't exist with retail software.)

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: DanH

Date:1/28/2014 9:43:10 AM

2.0 is here:


http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/soundforgepromac

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:1/28/2014 10:07:40 AM

> "It just looks like a number of pretty common things that made SF PC great were overlooked. (FLAC support? Where's the FLAC support??)"

I guess Sony was listening. SF Mac 2.0:

New Sound Forge Pro Mac 2.0
* Seamless interoperability with SpectraLayers Pro 2. Layering, remixing, sound design, more. There's nothing you can't do with these applications!
* CALM-targeted metering. Win the volume war with new metering options.
* FLAC file support; it's easy to work with this popular lossless format.
* Convrt™ Batch Processing Automation Tool. Batch processing arrives in Sound Forge Pro Mac 2!
And more!

They even brought the Batch Processor back!!!

~jr

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:2/5/2014 8:49:54 AM

this was written by others:
> "It just looks like a number of pretty common things that made SF PC great were overlooked. (FLAC support? Where's the FLAC support??)"

I guess Sony was listening. SF Mac 2.0:

New Sound Forge Pro Mac 2.0
* Seamless interoperability with SpectraLayers Pro 2. Layering, remixing, sound design, more. There's nothing you can't do with these applications!
* CALM-targeted metering. Win the volume war with new metering options.
* FLAC file support; it's easy to work with this popular lossless format.
* Convrt™ Batch Processing Automation Tool. Batch processing arrives in Sound Forge Pro Mac 2!
And more!

They even brought the Batch Processor back!!!

~jr

my reply:
All well and good and I'm not complaining about what Sony finally included but more about what they didn't include: they STILL don't have CD burning in the program. Shouldn't have to go to a separate program to do that. Heck Sony did it for SF Win - why not SF Mac?

Jack

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:2/6/2014 7:14:18 PM

> "they STILL don't have CD burning in the program"

I'm guessing it's because Mac's don't come with CD burners anymore. Why would they waste time putting in support for a legacy device like a CD that new Mac's don't even have?

Perhaps they will add it in the future but I'm not surprised it's not at the top of their list. I didn't even notice there was no CD burning feature because I haven't burned a CD in years. I realize it's important to your workflow so I'm not diminishing your need for it, I'm just pointing out that you may be in the minority in an age of iPod's and downloadable content.

> "Heck Sony did it for SF Win - why not SF Mac?"

Sound Forge Win is over 15 years old! (it started on Windows 3.1) It had a long time to develop a lot of features. Sound Forge Mac is not a "port". It's completely redesigned from the ground up so it's starting with nothing. You can't expect SF Mac to have 15 years of features in a year. It will take time to add all of the features back and it won't make sense to add some of the features back that nobody uses anymore.

I recently used SF Mac to record and master a commercial voice over I was working on and it worked great. Luckily no one asked me for a CD... it was delivered to the client via DropBox. ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:2/10/2014 12:28:14 PM

JohnnyRoy said:
> "they STILL don't have CD burning in the program"

I'm guessing it's because Mac's don't come with CD burners anymore. Why would they waste time putting in support for a legacy device like a CD that new Mac's don't even have?

Perhaps they will add it in the future but I'm not surprised it's not at the top of their list. I didn't even notice there was no CD burning feature because I haven't burned a CD in years. I realize it's important to your workflow so I'm not diminishing your need for it, I'm just pointing out that you may be in the minority in an age of iPod's and downloadable content.

> "Heck Sony did it for SF Win - why not SF Mac?"

Sound Forge Win is over 15 years old! (it started on Windows 3.1) It had a long time to develop a lot of features. Sound Forge Mac is not a "port". It's completely redesigned from the ground up so it's starting with nothing. You can't expect SF Mac to have 15 years of features in a year. It will take time to add all of the features back and it won't make sense to add some of the features back that nobody uses anymore.

I recently used SF Mac to record and master a commercial voice over I was working on and it worked great. Luckily no one asked me for a CD... it was delivered to the client via DropBox. ;-)

~jr

I replied (I wish this forum had a proper quote feature):
It's only new mac's that don't have cd/dvd drives. There are plenty of machines out there that still have them that get used every day for music production. Hell it's cheap enough to buy an outboard one.

I know SF Win is old and SF Mac is a relative infant but that's no excuse not to have certain features that existed in SF Win. That's just lazy programming that it doesn't. I don't buy the philosophy of getting a program out and adding back in features that used to exist before, port or no port in updates. If it can't be done then say so; if it won't be done - say so! It's atrocious that Batch Processing took this long to get into the program.

I never make mp3's - quality just isn't there for my ears (and a lot others).

Jack

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: ComoD

Date:2/12/2014 11:05:37 AM

We can sit here and debate features all day long... I need to burn CD's, I need to make MP3's, etc. We all have our unique workflows and we shouldn't judge each other based on what we need to do.

Do I burn CD's anymore, no... Do I make MP3's, no... However, I know people that do every day and it works for them, so be it.

However, the real issue is feature parity Windows vs. Mac. Right now, you just can't compare SF Win to SF Mac. They may as well be different applications outright. (TwistedWave is $80.00 and is more fully featured than SF Mac currently, even with V2.)

I'm a long time MOTU Digital Performer user on the Mac. When they released it for the PC, the parity between the versions was out of the gate at 90%. (Yes, hell froze over, but they did it.)

If I were to guess at feature parity on SF between PC and Mac, you are going to be on the lower side of say 30%. (Maybe more, however I'm being nice.)

I think the point I am making is SF 2.0 should be more like SF 1.5 with a minimal upgrade charge, if one at all.

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: MrCourtney

Date:2/21/2014 5:25:46 PM

I agree with you. V1 wasn't usable for any pro work. To compare it to FCP doesn't work. The updates are free. Sony is grabbing money to charge for an update that still falls short.
I just cut my losses and moved to Logic Pro.

Subject:RE: SF Mac 2.0??

Reply by: kenpost

Date:5/20/2014 10:08:02 PM

Add all the insult to of missing features to the crappy support. I just asked if a feature is there. They took over a month to reply and just said check the forums. I had already checked the forums and the manual and everything else I could think of and could not find anything on scripting. I assume it is not there. It would be nice to just get a straight answer from support. At this point I will probably be asking for my money back. Marginal program and bad support. Too bad, as I loved SF on the PC.