regions don't save with AAC file -Sound Forge - Mac

Subject:regions don't save with AAC file Posted by: Adam M Date:2/5/2014 5:42:51 PM Hi, Just an FYI: I was working with an AAC file when I noticed the regions weren't saving with the file. I don't know if this is due to the AAC format (when I saved it as a WAV file the markers were saved) or if is some kind of bug; if so, there should at least be a warning when you save the file telling you that you are about to lose the region markers. Luckily I noticed this happened and pressing "undo" brought them back. If I had been working on a bigger project and lost these this way it would have been extremely annoying... This is with SF Mac 2 on Os X Mavericks. Anyone know if is this working as intended, i.e. part of the file format or something else I am missing? Thanks. Adam
Subject:RE: regions don't save with AAC file Reply by: SonySQAPete Date:2/7/2014 7:29:40 AM Regions aren't a standard supported metadata type in .m4a or mp4 files with an embedded AAC stream. If your heart is set on using AAC audio and regions, I'd render to a CAF file. It supports both of those things. Markers are technically supported, but Garageband, Sound Studio and a smattering of podcast & audiobook specific applications are the only applications that I'm aware of supporting them. This is all sidestepping a larger issue that you might want to consider. I'd always advise that you perform all edits on a lossless intermediary file to reduce or eliminate the chance of introducing unwanted compression artifacts into the signal. (This can and will happen when you re-compress an already lossy-compressed audio stream.) It's best to start with a lossless file, but I understand that's not always an option. In those cases, I'd convert to a lossless intermediary, perform any work on the file and save the recompression until you're ready to put a bow on the finished product. Note: Forge will always open the file and perform all edits internally on a lossless 32-bit float intermediary, but it's going to rewrite the file during each Save operation to match the format of the input file, potentially recompressing multiple times. You want to avoid this. And, as you've already noticed, saves will cause any unsupported metadata to be shed from the file. That being said, I'll go ahead and enter a feature request for marker support in m4a & mp4 files. Message last edited on2/7/2014 11:08:22 AM bySonySQAPete.
Subject:RE: regions don't save with AIFF Reply by: bputexas Date:11/28/2014 8:49:57 AM I am trying to create .wav or .aiff with saved loop points. In Max/MSP one can view all this data with the info~ function. No matter what I do in Sound Forge, the loop/region markers are all zero - meaning unsaved with the file. So.. can anyone tell me how to create/save a file with loop, region data embedded? thanks
Subject:RE: regions don't save with AIFF Reply by: pwppch Date:11/28/2014 10:47:33 AM As I understand the Max/MSP data, loop meta data is unique to their format. Forge writes markers and regions using a format that my guess is that Max/MSP does not know how to extract from the file. I did a brief Google to see if the format expected was defined, but had not luck. I did read on their community forum that loop metadata is written to a custom database. The import of loop data seems to be limited to reading other metadata. Again, I did not find any specific reference to what metadata that Max/MSP can read/import. Peter

Subject:regions don't save with AAC file

Posted by: Adam M

Date:2/5/2014 5:42:51 PM

Hi,
Just an FYI: I was working with an AAC file when I noticed the regions weren't saving with the file. I don't know if this is due to the AAC format (when I saved it as a WAV file the markers were saved) or if is some kind of bug; if so, there should at least be a warning when you save the file telling you that you are about to lose the region markers. Luckily I noticed this happened and pressing "undo" brought them back. If I had been working on a bigger project and lost these this way it would have been extremely annoying...

This is with SF Mac 2 on Os X Mavericks.

Anyone know if is this working as intended, i.e. part of the file format or something else I am missing?

Thanks.
Adam

Subject:RE: regions don't save with AAC file

Reply by: SonySQAPete

Date:2/7/2014 7:29:40 AM

Regions aren't a standard supported metadata type in .m4a or mp4 files with an embedded AAC stream.

If your heart is set on using AAC audio and regions, I'd render to a CAF file. It supports both of those things.

Markers are technically supported, but Garageband, Sound Studio and a smattering of podcast & audiobook specific applications are the only applications that I'm aware of supporting them.

This is all sidestepping a larger issue that you might want to consider. I'd always advise that you perform all edits on a lossless intermediary file to reduce or eliminate the chance of introducing unwanted compression artifacts into the signal. (This can and will happen when you re-compress an already lossy-compressed audio stream.)

It's best to start with a lossless file, but I understand that's not always an option. In those cases, I'd convert to a lossless intermediary, perform any work on the file and save the recompression until you're ready to put a bow on the finished product.

Note: Forge will always open the file and perform all edits internally on a lossless 32-bit float intermediary, but it's going to rewrite the file during each Save operation to match the format of the input file, potentially recompressing multiple times. You want to avoid this. And, as you've already noticed, saves will cause any unsupported metadata to be shed from the file.

That being said, I'll go ahead and enter a feature request for marker support in m4a & mp4 files.

Message last edited on2/7/2014 11:08:22 AM bySonySQAPete.

Subject:RE: regions don't save with AIFF

Reply by: bputexas

Date:11/28/2014 8:49:57 AM

I am trying to create .wav or .aiff with saved loop points. In Max/MSP one can view all this data with the info~ function. No matter what I do in Sound Forge, the loop/region markers are all zero - meaning unsaved with the file.

So.. can anyone tell me how to create/save a file with loop, region data embedded?

thanks

Subject:RE: regions don't save with AIFF

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/28/2014 10:47:33 AM

As I understand the Max/MSP data, loop meta data is unique to their format.

Forge writes markers and regions using a format that my guess is that Max/MSP does not know how to extract from the file.

I did a brief Google to see if the format expected was defined, but had not luck. I did read on their community forum that loop metadata is written to a custom database. The import of loop data seems to be limited to reading other metadata. Again, I did not find any specific reference to what metadata that Max/MSP can read/import.

Peter