Subject:Destructive vs. Non-destructive editing?

Posted by: sk

Date:12/30/2001 7:52:54 PM

Hey, Red -
I did a search first to try to not ask an overly asked question. And I saw posts making references to destructive vs. non-destructive editing, but I'm very unclear on the particulars; only that Vegas (and other audio editors like Wavelab) use non-destructive editing, while Sound Forge uses destructive editing. I'm at a loss as to what is the difference. Does it mean every file that gets edited in Sound Forge gets compromised?
HELP.

sk

Subject:RE: Destructive vs. Non-destructive editing?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:12/30/2001 11:33:16 PM

I'm not 100% sure on this, but this how I think this works. Let me use an example of the "Normalization" process and how it would handle a particular wave being normalized to 0dB with destructive and non-destructive.

In a destructive editor, it scans through the file and says to raise the level 3dB throughout the wave. It then processes the wave and raises the level 3dB and creates a new temporary file. So the actual process is carried out.

In a Non-destructive editor, it scans through the file and says to raise the level 3dB throughout once more. Now instead of actually carrying out the process, it just stores a function which plays back the audio at +3dB and then redraws the waveform with higher amplitude. Thus, the same thing is being done, but the actual processing hasn't been done to the wave. The processing isn't actually performed on the wave until you hit save and then all processes are done at once and saved to the hard drive. Thus when you do an undo, it just get's rid of that stored function.

This is what I believe is happening, but someone may be able to add some more insight if I'm wrong.

Regards,
Red

Subject:RE: Destructive vs. Non-destructive editing?

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:12/31/2001 12:38:20 AM

To add a bit,

Destructive editing happens on the disk, so the actual data changes. Non-destructive editing happens in memory, so while the data remains the same on the disk, it is processed in memory before exiting your speakers. To sum up in analogy:

You're editing a handwritten document. Destructive editing is like going through the pages with a pencil, erasing words, adding words, and correcting mistakes. Non-destructive editing is like crossing out words instead of erasing, using proofing symbols to denote capitalization, and putting corrections in the margins.

Regards,
Nick

Subject:RE: Destructive vs. Non-destructive editing?

Reply by: sk

Date:12/31/2001 3:16:08 AM

OK.
So let me see if I've got this straight. Sound Forge is a destructive audio editor. But if I keep using 'save as' until I'm absolutely sure I am satisfied with the final changes/results, aside from accumulating a sh*tload of temporary files in the process, in the final analysis I haven't done any more damage to the files than if I'd used a non-destructive editor, is that correct? Because even the non-destructive editors have to become 'destructive' at the point where all the changes are permanently saved, right?
And since it was in Red's post where he said that Vegas uses non-destructive editing, and Sound Forge uses destructive editing, I wonder why SF doesn't apply non-destructive editing to Sound Forge as well.

sk

Subject:RE: Destructive vs. Non-destructive editing?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:12/31/2001 10:52:13 AM

I think you got it right. And the reason that SF doesn't use it, is because there's advantages to each case. Speed for Non-destructive and Safety/reliability for Destructive. In Vegas, when you're tracking and editing you need more effenciency. In sound forge if you're mastering a stereo file, the saving grace is probably the best thing if your PC desides to lock up after you've done all the processing and your client is totally happy with where it's at. Basically destructive editing is more hard drive intensive and non-destructive is more processor intensive. If you're running out of processor and ram power in Vegas you have the option to make destructive processing/edits, so you can free up some of the realtime processing going on.