Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP? -Sound Forge - PC

Subject:Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP? Posted by: arcmusic Date:12/30/2001 1:23:38 PM I have used SF5 for a while now on my Win98SE machine happily. But I was considring going to Win2000 or XP with a Layla 24 or Delta 1010. I tried a friend's dual boot PC which has WinMe and XP and a Layla 24. He also has SF 5 so I tried doing some recording in both WinMe/XP with his SF5.0d and I was not able to successfullly record at 24 or 32 bit from the Layla at all. We tried updating his Layla 24 with the newest Ver. 6 driver - under WinMe it recommends you use the "W95/98" driver and under XP it recommends the "W2000/XP" driver when you run the ver 6 driver .exe file, so we followed these recomendations. But under both OSes in Device Manager the Layla cards shows as a "WDM" device. Therefore, it seems that the problem is either that the Echo driver is just not working correctly at 24/32 bit, or that SF5.0d is not supporting the WDM extensible to get > 16 bit. I did successfully record at 16 bit just fine in WinMe and XP, but at 24 bit SF just gets no input levels. Also, at 96 kHz all recordings are choppy and it just cannot record at this sample rate either. What's the deal with WDM support in SF5? And what about WDM in Vegas or Acid too? What about 96k?
Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP? Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:12/30/2001 2:45:06 PM If you look at the "known issues" for the Layla you'll notice that it says...You may hve problems recording or playing back 24bit audio in soundforge 5. There is the same problem in Wavelab 3.0. If you check their acrobat disclaimer on 6.0 drivers it will explain why[wdm explanation on page 11]. I have a Layla 20 bit and I hope that they get this crap resolved soon. Please email them and complain as I have so that hopefully they listen. Later.
Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP? Reply by: arcmusic Date:12/30/2001 3:50:24 PM Thanks for the reply Shtunot. But from my understanding of WDM, the application needs to support at least the 'WDM Extensible' format before it can record/play at greater than 16 bit with any WDM driver sound card. I did see the Echo ReadMe, but notice that it says the same for Cool Edit & Wavelab? These are MME based applications that do not yet support WDM. But I am not sure if SF5, Acid or Vegas have added WDM support yet - it appears that they have not. So Echo really does not mention WHY the 24 bit will not work with these programs, but I suspect this is why. If you use the older Echo MME drivers under Win95/98 then 20 or 24 bit recording is fine. Maybe Sonic Foundry can elaborate and let us know exactly what WDM support is offered now.
Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP? Reply by: billybk Date:12/30/2001 7:24:38 PM I have an XP OS and a Delta 66 with the latest WDM drivers(5.12.1.26, same as 1010), and I have been running SF 5.0e, ACID 3.0e and Vegas Video 2.0h and now VV3.0 all at 44.1K/24bit. If you also use SONAR, like I do, remember to re-adjust the Deltas "DMA Buffer Size" from 64 samples to 256 or more when using Vegas Video to avoid pops/crackling in the audio. The lowest setting of 64 works best when working in SONAR's native WDM environment, but is not necessary with the SF apps, which don't require extremely low latencies. 96K seems to work also in SF 5.0e. Billy Buck
Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP? Reply by: arcmusic Date:12/31/2001 10:05:29 AM Thanks Billy, OK - so this sounds more like the Layla driver being the problem if the Delta will work at 24 bit with your SF5.0. Apparently this means that SF 5.0 DOES include WDM Extensible support then. I do not seem to see any official statement anywhere on the SFoundry site about WDM - I would really appreciate if Support could spell it out for us here!

Subject:Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP?

Posted by: arcmusic

Date:12/30/2001 1:23:38 PM

I have used SF5 for a while now on my Win98SE machine happily. But I was considring going to Win2000 or XP with a Layla 24 or Delta 1010. I tried a friend's dual boot PC which has WinMe and XP and a Layla 24. He also has SF 5 so I tried doing some recording in both WinMe/XP with his SF5.0d and I was not able to successfullly record at 24 or 32 bit from the Layla at all. We tried updating his Layla 24 with the newest Ver. 6 driver - under WinMe it recommends you use the "W95/98" driver and under XP it recommends the "W2000/XP" driver when you run the ver 6 driver .exe file, so we followed these recomendations. But under both OSes in Device Manager the Layla cards shows as a "WDM" device.
Therefore, it seems that the problem is either that the Echo driver is just not working correctly at 24/32 bit, or that SF5.0d is not supporting the WDM extensible to get > 16 bit. I did successfully record at 16 bit just fine in WinMe and XP, but at 24 bit SF just gets no input levels. Also, at 96 kHz all recordings are choppy and it just cannot record at this sample rate either.
What's the deal with WDM support in SF5? And what about WDM in Vegas or Acid too? What about 96k?

Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:12/30/2001 2:45:06 PM

If you look at the "known issues" for the Layla you'll notice that it says...You may hve problems recording or playing back 24bit audio in soundforge 5. There is the same problem in Wavelab 3.0. If you check their acrobat disclaimer on 6.0 drivers it will explain why[wdm explanation on page 11]. I have a Layla 20 bit and I hope that they get this crap resolved soon. Please email them and complain as I have so that hopefully they listen. Later.

Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP?

Reply by: arcmusic

Date:12/30/2001 3:50:24 PM

Thanks for the reply Shtunot. But from my understanding of WDM, the application needs to support at least the 'WDM Extensible' format before it can record/play at greater than 16 bit with any WDM driver sound card. I did see the Echo ReadMe, but notice that it says the same for Cool Edit & Wavelab? These are MME based applications that do not yet support WDM. But I am not sure if SF5, Acid or Vegas have added WDM support yet - it appears that they have not. So Echo really does not mention WHY the 24 bit will not work with these programs, but I suspect this is why. If you use the older Echo MME drivers under Win95/98 then 20 or 24 bit recording is fine.
Maybe Sonic Foundry can elaborate and let us know exactly what WDM support is offered now.

Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP?

Reply by: billybk

Date:12/30/2001 7:24:38 PM

I have an XP OS and a Delta 66 with the latest WDM drivers(5.12.1.26, same as 1010), and I have been running SF 5.0e, ACID 3.0e and Vegas Video 2.0h and now VV3.0 all at 44.1K/24bit. If you also use SONAR, like I do, remember to re-adjust the Deltas "DMA Buffer Size" from 64 samples to 256 or more when using Vegas Video to avoid pops/crackling in the audio. The lowest setting of 64 works best when working in SONAR's native WDM environment, but is not necessary with the SF apps, which don't require extremely low latencies. 96K seems to work also in SF 5.0e.

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Does SF5 support WDM - 24 bit under W2000/XP?

Reply by: arcmusic

Date:12/31/2001 10:05:29 AM

Thanks Billy,
OK - so this sounds more like the Layla driver being the problem if the Delta will work at 24 bit with your SF5.0. Apparently this means that SF 5.0 DOES include WDM Extensible support then. I do not seem to see any official statement anywhere on the SFoundry site about WDM - I would really appreciate if Support could spell it out for us here!