Vegas 12 Rendering Issues

MC10 wrote on 4/2/2013, 3:59 PM
Been reading and have tried all the solutions suggested here concerning a motion blur/pixelization and stutter problem with Vegas 12. The blur happens during Mpeg 2 Program Stream NTSC render template....when someone is in motion in the video. Just recently upgraded from Vegas 9 where I never had a problem with rendering. This latest version has lots of new options. What is the best basic set up I can use to get a smooth render/playback using mpeg2 in a 720 x480 format?
Quatro 1800 graphics
camera Sony FX7
No HD, just Standard Def
Rendering from 1080 to 720 x480
needs to render to mpeg 2 for playback on control server

Comments

MC10 wrote on 4/2/2013, 7:13 PM
Really need some help with this... have to get something on air (that is airable) by the end of the week. Thanks everyone!
TheRhino wrote on 4/2/2013, 8:56 PM
Just a thought... Make sure the fps is the same in the render settings as the source footage - for instance 29.97fps to 29.97fps... The newer version of Vegas will not have your unique render settings saved, so the stock settings may be different than your old presets...

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MC10 wrote on 4/3/2013, 1:22 PM
Thanks The Rhino... I did check. I use a Sony FX7 camera which is supposed to record everything at 29.97 fps, but in checking the video on the timeline, it reads 780x420x 24 which I assume means it is recording at 24 fps.
I changed the settings to 24 fps under the basic render setting and it got rid of the ghosting issue. The video looks good except now a stutter pops up during playback once in a while. I have turned off the video accelerator, turned the RAM setting down to 1, 100 & 200 and each time I get a stutter.
The video is only 9 minutes long with only a few graphics which in the past, with Vegas 9, would never have been a problem.
Again, this video needs to be on air as perfect as possible by this weekend, plus I have people wishing to buy copies of the event that was covered.

Help!
musicvid10 wrote on 4/3/2013, 1:48 PM
Set your project to match your media. Search "match media settings" on the forum to learn how.
rmack350 wrote on 4/3/2013, 2:39 PM
Vegas' readout of clips info can be a bit confusing but usually it'll read like "720x480x24, 23.976 fps".

The 24 refers to color, not framerate. 8 bits per channel times 3 channels = 24 bits

As MusicVid says, match your project template to your video. At the top right of your Project Properties dialog there's a button that can be used for this, click it and then browse to one of your media files to select it.

This method bypasses getting it wrong manually.

Based on the fact that your render seems to be cleaning up when you set the project frame rate "24", I'd make a guess that the camera was set to 24p mode, which is probably really 23.976 in a 29.970 file. I'll hazard a guess that if you set your project to 23.976 rather than 24 the render will clean up even further. (However, I'm looking cursorily at online docs for your camera and don't see a mention of a 24p mode so either I'm missing it or it doesn't do it.)

Rob
MC10 wrote on 4/3/2013, 4:11 PM
Got'cha about the 24 referring to color... I knew that but have been staring at this computer screen for 2 days now & am getting a little wacky. Anyway, I will try the Matching Media. A quick :50 test at 30fps produced a flawless render.
I read the specs on my camera as well and everything points to 29.97 fps, but v12 refuses to render anything well at that rate. I noticed in another thread, someone was rendering his v12 edits in v9. How is that possible? When I try to import anything from v12 into vegas 9 for rendering purposes, it will not accept. Just curious as this would solve a lot of headaches til Sony fixes the rendering problem.
Thanks
videoITguy wrote on 4/3/2013, 4:29 PM
A workflow from Version 12 to 9 means that you are going to use intermediates as part of your process. Has nothing to do with the .veg as a project file. So you take advantage of filters and tweaks in 12 and hand them AS a rendered intermediate to earlier version for less complex mastering.
marcel-vossen wrote on 4/7/2013, 2:45 AM
Probably too late but maybe you can use this info.

If its a relatively simple project, you might wanna try to just copy-paste the footage from the timeline of V12 into V9. I found out that works with V12 to V11, although I also noticed you gotta use the 64 bit version of V11 to make it work.

JBird wrote on 4/7/2013, 9:41 PM
Under Options/Preferences/;Video - be sure GPU rendering of video processing is set to "off" when rendering to a 720x480 mpg2 file (for dvd). This stopped the crashing for me, & it still renders pretty fast.
MC10 wrote on 4/8/2013, 3:55 PM
Have tried that too, but still get a stutter and never in the same place twice. I am now messing with running less processors and threads, but so far still get a stutter or two. My IT guy can't figure out why I am being told to shut the processor accelerator off since that is what the processor is for. Maybe I am not thinking of this properly. Does the GPU Acceleration actually make my Quadro FX1800 run even faster? What is the purpose of the accelerator? Did not have this option on Vegas 9 and everything worked like a charm in that version. Never a problem.
As for copying and pasting from v12 to v9, tried (at least with a current timeline) and it would not let me do that. Please keep the suggestions coming and thanks for your advice, everyone, so far...
larry-peter wrote on 4/8/2013, 4:27 PM
Since this is for broadcast, are you rendering CBR? The stations I deliver to require that. If you're using the default NTSC Program Stream template, you're probably getting a fairly poor VBR setting. Not that it should stutter even so, but I'd try a CBR at 8,000,000 + and see what you get.
Also, the QuadroFX1800 is at the bottom of the supported video cards for acceleration. I use one with Vegas 11 and it took a lot of experimenting with drivers to find a combination that worked well. 295.73 QuadroTesla driver is running smooth in V11, and I know a lot of Nvidea users are finding older drivers working better than the newest releases.
MC10 wrote on 4/9/2013, 9:08 PM
Thank you all for your help so far... After reading some other forum notes, especially about the New Blue Titler causes crashes and other issues, I decided to delete NB. Low and behold, the video playback stuttering stopped. Would I be correct in saying NB is requiring too many sources to make v12 stable? Without NB installed, I was able to render a 3 minute video without a hiccup today. More, longer rendering experiments tomorrow.
Problem with this solution is I really wanted this upgrade for the NB titler... Suggestions???
dxdy wrote on 4/9/2013, 9:17 PM
Get in touch with New Blue. They are very helpful.
MC10 wrote on 4/9/2013, 10:03 PM
Will do!
MC10 wrote on 4/10/2013, 4:03 PM
Okay... Now I am getting a stutter/freeze point even without New Blue installed. I gotta tell ya, I am totally frustrating now (as is my I.T. guy here at work). We have tried every setting suggested on this forum and nothing seems to work. Let me explain what happens that way someone may get an idea....
Most of the time I can render something cleanly for about 25 to 40 seconds (not always though sometimes it is sooner), then a stutter appears. As the render progresses, the stutters increase in frequency. This even occurs on straight video, no edits, transistions, nothing, just a one to two minute piece of raw video. I clocked the stutters at :44, 1:15, 1:38 & 1:57. They were very noticeable and unairable for my TV channel. I tried it with the Accelerator on & off and the RAM setting at 0 or 1. Stutters each time. The video in between the stutters is clean and slick looking. The stutters occur whether V12 is the only thing running or not.

We have come to the conclusion that the v12 programmers did not do a very good job with this version and are very disappointed. I appreciate all the suggestions and will try anything to get this to work, but it is such a shame that you spend so much money on something that should work on the lowest common computer, right out of the box, but doesn't.

In the meantime, while I wait for further updates and possible fixes, I am forced to go back to using Vegas 9 which has never caused me such headaches... but please, keep the suggestions coming and as time allows, I will keep tinkering.

-Doug
chap wrote on 4/10/2013, 4:47 PM
Have you tried Selectively PreRendering video before the render? Try that and use the Sony suggested default.

chap wrote on 4/10/2013, 4:51 PM
Another thing I do sometimes is render to the biggest available .AVI output using the Sony YUV codec. Then take THAT file and re-render it using the MPEG 2 that you want.

------

Option 2---
Since you say Vegas 9 is working fine with these files, why not just render the video out (9 minutes) at the setting you want in V12, and then open THAT file in V9. Take the original 4 clips that are stuttering in V12 and lay them over in the new clean timeline in V9.

It is not an elegant solution or making excuses for Vegas 12, this is just to help you get the file out by Airtime!

chap
larry-peter wrote on 4/10/2013, 5:31 PM
Are you checking playback on a software player other than Vegas? If so, have you looked at the rendered file in Vegas to see exactly what is happening on the "stutter" frame? i.e. duplicated or skipped frame, field issue, a random inserted frame (it has happened). If you want to post a link to your .veg file (no media) and rendered file, I'll take a look to see if I can come up with a solution and I'm sure others will too.

Post your custom settings for the MPEG-2 render template also.

Edit: I just made the decision to install V12 today, so I'll be attempting to run it on a QuadroFX1800 also.
MC10 wrote on 4/10/2013, 8:28 PM
Will work more on my work computer tomorrow, but just now playing around with v12 on my laptop, I rendered a minute and a half as a mpeg2. Had a small stutter towards the end. I put that mpeg2 render on a fresh timeline and rendered it again as a mpeg 2 and the stutter disappeared.
Also rendered as an avi which came out smooth. Rendered that again as a mpeg2 and a stutter appeared.
Do you think the mpeg 2 templates in v12 could be causing the stutters?
BTW, I watch the renders on windows media player...don't know why that would make a difference.
Anyway, atom12, I will be anxiously awaiting your FX1800 results and I will work on uploading a few samples, good and bad, tomorrow.

Thanks,
Doug
ddm wrote on 4/10/2013, 9:18 PM
>>> I put that mpeg2 render on a fresh timeline and rendered it again as a mpeg 2 and the stutter disappeared.

That has to tell you something, right, it's in the playback. Use VLC, or do as was suggested, put the stuttering mpeg2 on the vegas timeline and go thru the stuttering section frame by frame, if the render is bad then you will see it.
larry-peter wrote on 4/11/2013, 8:21 AM
I believe ddm is right and playback in WMP is the issue. A second render of the file removing the stutter pretty much nails it. I only use WMP to check playback of Windows Media files. I don't trust it for much of anything else.
MC10 wrote on 4/11/2013, 8:57 AM
Finally broke down and did a test airing of a video I have been getting stuttering playback on. I put a clip with a major hit in it on the air and it played fine. Will keep experimenting, but this just may be as you all are saying, just a player issue. Will keep you posted. Working on a story today for air starting this weekend. Will do a sneak preview on air to see if there are any flaws in the rendering. I am hoping all this worrying for the past week and a half was all for naught...
MC10 wrote on 4/15/2013, 10:10 AM
At the risk of jinxing myself, I have now aired several stories on my channel and everything has played just fine, even though when I watch the rendered video on a computer, I still get a few hiccups (and I have tried several players). Not sure what the deal is, but at least I can use v12 with confidence and know it will air properly. I even used a few of the New Blue effects and they worked fine too. Thanks to all who helped me out.