I think you'll find those providing the least polite replies are trying to emphasize their own importance. This is no different to many other forums and newsgroups. I refer to this sort of obnoxious behavior as 'childish'.

I've been quite lucky here in being able to ignore the white noise and appreciate the value of advise and information from those with real product knowledge who are willing to share it.

Don't give up on the value of a forum just because a few childish individuals who need to get their rock off of by insulting you. Civility is a product of freedom. Freedom allows these cretins to exist.

You'll only do your own freedom harm if you try to limit them having the same rights you have to criticize them. It's called democracy.

DaveT2:

A lot of folks on this forum have taken time to respond to your questions-even providing examples... Likewise, you have done the same and have helped others (thanks). IMO, to claim that you will never return to this forum because you are upset over comments made by a few knuckleheads is unrealistic if you are a regular Vegas user.

There is simply way more help to be found here vs. frustration. IMO just ignore the comments by those who are not "civil" and focus on the posts that are helpful. I don't let people I have never met & will likely never meet ruffle my feathers.

I've been teaching tech. classes for over 20 years, editing video for over 13, and have owned my own digital studio for about 8 years. However, compared to some on this forum I still feel like a novice. My editing routine typically stays within the same skill set. Whenever I have to do something outside of my daily routine, I have to research the best way to approach it. This forum has helped me to establish a better workflow which helps me to earn more $$ per hour.

For instance, recently I was able to discover the correct driver (296.10) to use with my new GTX 570 GPU. This knowledge saved me hours of frustration. Prior to that knowledge I was unable to benefit from GPU acceleration.

Once you're done venting we hope to see you around...

DaveT2, I hope you are reading this thread as you consider what you are going to do. The people here, and I definitely echo their sentiments, applaud and value your participation.

You are probably 1 of 3 individuals that regularly comment here from whom I have learned a huge amount of information. Note that when comments are made, there are opinions, there are different interpretations, and there is a huge amount of anecdotal evidence given. None of these elements by themselves have much merit, but when taken in context, and in whole, they really add to an invaluable quality of information in the vault.

Please reconsider your suggested departure.

Could be worse. I complained on the DVInfo.Net forum about people hijacking my posts, and that resulted in me losing my right to post without my posts first being approved by a moderator. It's been several years, and I still can't post until a moderator approves.

Apparently on that forum hijacking is ok, asking people to stop is not.

It's unfortunate, because that forum and this forum are two of the best sources of help and advice.

I echo the others. Please reconsider!

Dave, I've come to a little different conclusion. I've been using Vegas since V3 in 2002 and have been a fairly active participant over the years. In my view, the forum is far more civilized than four years ago, when I left in disgust after certain members insisted in arguing about the two "taboos"--politics and religion. There were plenty of politically-oriented sites on the Internet, while I came here to learn more about Vegas and share my own experiences with this terrific program.

Now it could be that perhaps I don't see the lack of civility because I just don't read every thread, including the ones that might be critical of newbies. I certainly hope I'm helping to set a good example here.

Anyway, not trying to minimize your concerns, but things were REALLY ugly at times a few years back. These days I enjoy hearing from folks from all over the world, including the Philippines, the Land Down Under, a scuba boat in Bali (I think), and the UK. And everyone really seems to be quite civilized, especially when compared to the foul language on political blogs.

I can only add my voice to those requesting that you stay.
TBH I too have not noticed any lack of civility although I do worry about those who question others motives based purely on how long they've been a member.
At the end of the day though it's a simple matter to choose not to be offended.
By choosing to be offended one only adds weight to those who have offended.


Bob.

Would you please share the details of what the driver is? Thanks.

Kit

Dave,
I too hope you choose to remain active here. Being someone I know professionally as well as a forum brother, I can say your expertise is needed, as is your integrity.

I also think this forum is more civil than it was a few years back. I think we could remind the newer users that there are some topics that have absolute answers - but the vast majority of posts, especially those dealing with issues of esthetics and style should all be read with an understood, "In my opinion..." preface. That's my preferred way of choosing not to be offended.

Hope to hear more from you.

Larry

seeing as you've invested over 5k's worth of posts i think it extremely rude of you to walk out in the middle of an ongoing conversation ;P)

seriously, there's always going to be a fly (or two) in the ointment, but overall if the ointment works why give it up?

look, if it makes you any happier, i'll snub the bug*ers too....

Sorry to see you go, Dave, and thanks for all your help. Hope to see you back here.

Yes, I'll happily add my voice to those asking you to stay, Dave. You have contributed so much over the years and I am sorry if one or two miscreants who should know better have got under your skin. Please try to ignoree those impolite fools by skipping their posts when their names come up and continue to participate in what is a hugely valuable and generally extremely friendly forum.

Richard

Wow ! This is a shock to me Dave.

I can't tell you how much you helped me out just last week. I really wish you would reconsider after more than 5000 helpful posts.

I haven't noticed an increase in antagonistic posts on this forum, but if someone is bothering you weigh them. Weigh the number of them against the rest of us who really enjoy helping one another. I include you in that number.

Please reconsider.

Regards,

John

Hang with us, Dave!!!

I am just an amateur and observer, but over the years I visit this forum every day and have learned many interesting things regarding videoogrophy and editing. And your name is one I notice very frequently.

However, I do wish they would bring back the ability to "ignore" certain users like they did in the "old" days.

Tom G

Part of Dave's decision may have to do with "forum fatigue."
Hypersensitivity seems to be pretty common; I've certainly seen it in myself.
Several people have needed a break over recent years, and they (we) usually come back, "hopefully" with a better balance in our daily lives.

I've noted that we have now gone through two winter holiday seasons with no major blowups or saboteurs here. That to me is a good indicator of relative stability and consensus of purpose. A couple of odd birds have found acceptance here, where they would not have just a few years back.

The role of "newbie" is not an anointed one, however. A small minority come here with preemptive agendas, already have their minds made up, are only seeking validation or attention, are too lazy to use the interactive help or search resources, or to post any details, or are narcissists who have already been kicked off other forums. Critical questioning from the user base "may" alter their approach or shorten their stays here, while the well-intentioned will weather the scrutiny and explain their goals in detail; perhaps finding a more efficient or sensible solution as a result. The biggest problem I have seen recently is newbies giving other newbies nice-sounding but nonsensical advice, and watching them swallow it. Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate.

That being said, if Dave feels I've been part of the problem, I hope he will contact me by email so I can make some appropriate changes. Remarkably, he and I go back to P*nnacle Studio 5 days (1999?), and we've since agreed to disagree on several topics, an exercise that I hope has built mutual respect. Certainly, I have learned as much or more from examining his viewpoints as anyone's.

Words of wisdom.

tom

I think a lot of this perceived 'incivility' stems from some who have no issues with the more recent versions asserting that because their systems run smoothly, those with problems are:

trolls
running bad hardware

There is, amongst some quarters, an ostensible denial that Vegas could be at fault. In such cases, the arguments can result in frustration that boils over into a lack of civility.

To my mind, it really got going when VP11 was released.

I come into this forum every day to try and understand the software from the professional point of view. There are many on here whose advice and answers to the questions posed have helped me immensely. Then there are those, who I think, are only out to ring their own bell or play to their own drummer.

I don't ask as many questions as I should at the risk of sounding stupid. They say there are no dumb questions, but there are. I have never been treated unfairly that I can remember, There was one time where I questioned someone on their patience with those who were new at the game and the gentleman had a hissy fit. We all had to start somewhere. Can we afford to forget where we came from? If so, at what expense? I only wish I could sit with most of you to really learn the ropes. It saddens me to see anyone leave when they have so much to offer.

trolls

actually that should read 'wetware' ;-)

Name calling, prejudging, & compartmentalizing new users is a great way to ruin this forum.

Stop calling people trolls. It is distasteful.

I agree. I've seen this forum taken over by a few individuals that think they have a monopoly on everything under the sun. They spend all day on this forum constantly telling us their credentials when it has nothing to do with the posts.

I always wonder where they find the time to post such transparencies into their psyches when they are such busy editors.

They post for the benefit of their own egos.

Happy Easter!

Considering your history on these forums, that is an understandable, if not predictable response, "Lovelight".

Best.
;?)

DaveT2,

I'm sorry to see you go. But, I understand it. I'll go so far as to say I see your point. I had not been as active in keeping up here over the last couple of years. I was here a few years ago when things seemed really hostile and one or two users took self-imposed time-outs then.

As I became a bit more active in checking in here in the last few months, I was a bit surprised as how it felt a bit different around here. I don't know if it is me or whether it is different for better or worse. In short, I see your point.

That said, I've tried to keep reminding myself that posts in venues such as this can come across in tone different than what people intend. I've even seen this in reading my own. I hope that nothing I've said in a post has offended you and I apologize if so.

Anyway, I hope to see you back here again in the future.

Thank you for your participation here. Your posts have helped me far more than anything I've said has probably helped anyone. I wish you only the best.

As a reader of, and contributor to, many fora aside from this one (for which I an technically inacapable of making much of a contibution to the pool of knowledge), I have come to these conclusions:

There are many people whom are more than happy to share their knowledge. Some contribute information that well reasearched and accurate, while others may be less so - either way, they all mean well. Sometimes contibutors will have different means of reaching the same result and that's OK too.

There are those people whom are condescending and treat those with lesser knowledge with a certain degree of contemp.

There are those whom, for reasons known only to themselves, find fault with posts by a particular author and then go out of their way to belittle or ridicule the Poster.

These three categories of forumite can be seen on any forum, no what the subject of the forum. I have learnt to take the advice of the first group and ignore the other two groups. Good authors are greatly respected by the majority of those visiting fora, whilst the others should be little more than an irritation. I hope that DaveT2 has a break, then comes back refreshed and more able to deal with the less savoury elements.