thank goodness!

it would be great to have it work as advertised on a pc, let alone a mac ;-)

12 has been the best recent release, ie, 10 / 11 we're awful in my experience. that said, there's still problems bugs that shouldn't be there or have gotten through to a release.

and just think of the mess that's gpu.... on a mac as well ;-(

> [Jeff Waters] said: "Having recently moved to Mac at work, I'm pleasantly surprised. Not a raging fanboy, but certainly find myself missing Vegas as a native app."

Vegas Pro works really well under VMware Fusion and Fusion only cost $49. This is how I use it on my MacBook Pro all day. You could use the free VirtualBox to do the same but I really like Fusion and feel it's worth every penny. You could even use Bookcamp to make a Windows partition and still use Fusion to boot that partition under OS X for quick edits when you don't want to reboot your Mac.

> [ushere] said: "...and just think of the mess that's gpu.... on a mac as well ;-("

Actually there would probably be no mess at all and it would be a LOT more stable on a Mac. That's the beauty of the Mac. It supports two or three graphic cards and that's it! No guesswork for the consumer on what to buy. No guess work for Sony on which of the 1000's of graphic cards to support. It's all extremely simple and stable.

A great scenario would be if Sony developed Vegas Pro for Mac, followed by an iPad version that allows editors to get started rough cutting in the field and finish up on the desktop. Adobe understands this and has supplied some of these tools for their Creative Suite for Photoshop and Illustrator and it's great to be able to work in both environments seamlessly linked by a cloud infrastructure. This is the future of editing for creatives.

~jr

So the ideal solution would for Sony to say "Vegas only works on this $4k dell machine, anything else we won't help with". That could solve all the issues people have. :)

With SF on OSX I'd expect them to be working on getting Vegas over there, but Vegas is based on Windows codec systems. It would need to be changed a lot and, odds are, just like SF 1 for OSX, it wouldn't be comparable to Vegas on Windows. It would more likely be along the lines of the original Vegas Video.

I'm not a Mac fan or user (I can come up with many more reasons to not use one then otherwise), but developing on multiple platforms would create more sales which would help bother versions.

On February 7th, Sony posted this message on their Facebook page:

Hey, everybody that's asking for Vegas on the Mac - a couple of questions. 1) you're using Vegas on a PC right now, right? and 2) what would you want from Mac Vegas that you can't get from PC Vegas?

fanboi'ism?

Q2, appears to be a fair enough question? How about some creative answers?

Cheers

Grazie

Visit the recent port of Sound Forge, my friends. This subject has been hashed over ad nauseam.

> "So the ideal solution would for Sony to say "Vegas only works on this $4k dell machine, anything else we won't help with". That could solve all the issues people have. :)"

Yes!!! How many times have you seen people post to this forum requesting that Sony please just tell them what PC works and they will buy that one? I happens a lot! I truly believe that this would work.

What do you think Avid does? They still list "Avid Approved Hardware" under their requirements. They don't play around. They tell you what works and you'd be a fool not to buy it and you don't get support unless you do!

Of course, I would expect Sony to say "Buy this Sony VIO workstation or this Sony VIO laptop" for 100% Vegas Pro compatibility and you know what... people would be more than happy to buy one. ;-)

This is where Sony is missing the boat and I'm not talking about our friends at Sony Creative Software in Madison... I'm talking about Sony "the Corporation". They own the hardware! They own the software! They own the cameras! They own the tablets! They own the MP3 players! They own the Blu-ray players! Heck, they own the TV's!!! They COULD BE Apple!!! But instead, they let Apple eat their lunch. It's sad when you think about it. It's an opportunity lost of you ask me.

~jr

> "On February 7th, Sony posted this message on their Facebook page:"

Do you have a link to their Facebook page? I couldn't find them or rather, what I found didn't look "official" (there was no logo). I'd be happy to post my comments there.

> "1) you're using Vegas on a PC right now, right?"

Unfortunately yes, but I'm also using Vegas on a MacBook Pro via VMware Fusion and previously using Bootcamp. Neither are as good as having a native Mac version.

> "2) what would you want from Mac Vegas that you can't get from PC Vegas?"

I could finally get rid of the last Windows PC that I own. Honestly, I only keep a Windows workstation around to run Vegas Pro. I built this workstation because Apple hadn't updated their Mac Pro line in several years but if they had updated the Mac Pro line last year, I would have bought one of those instead. Then I'd be back to using Bootcamp to run Vegas. Like I said, it's sub-optimal when everything else you do is on Mac OS X.

~jr

Here is the link Johnny:

https://www.facebook.com/SonySoftware/posts/10152563059965118

Rob

Yes!!! How many times have you seen people post to this forum requesting that Sony please just tell them what PC works and they will buy that one? I happens a lot! I truly believe that this would work.

So, go in my system specs and build that system. I have almost no issues and none of the major ones people have complained about. :)

But you won't, others won't because they don't want a WORKING system, they want THEIR system to work. People here ask "what should I buy" and the response always is "buy this intel CPU, this intel MB and this nvidia card", but people who say that always complain they have issues in other threads. I certainly wouldn't buy their required hardware. If I wanted to spend that much $$ I could buy a Mac instead (that's what Apple people would say to us too).

I agree a supported list would be nice but Adobe burned me bad one time (and the last )on that. They ended up taking the recommended hardware I bought off their list in under 6 months after I bought it, so even those lists are rather pointless if things can get removed.

I'd like to see people post in a thread hardware+driver combos they don't have any (or minor) issues with. That would be more useful to everyone here.

> "But you won't, others won't because they don't want a WORKING system, they want THEIR system to work. "

While I did not build your system, I did build the VideoGuy's DIY9 system that was known to work because for me, having a working system is the most important criteria.

> "I'd like to see people post in a thread hardware+driver combos they don't have any (or minor) issues with. That would be more useful to everyone here."

My Intel Hex Core Video Editing Workstation based on VideoGuys DIY9.

~jr

>>>>I could finally get rid of the last Windows PC that I own. Honestly, I only keep a Windows workstation around to run Vegas Pro.<<<<<

So Sony should waste time and resources because 3 people on this planet want to completely cross over to the fruity side of computing?

I hope you realize you could go the other way; abandon Macs and go 100% PC? That would make far more sense considering that most 3d and compositing software is either Windows only or at least has superior windows versions.

> "So Sony should waste time and resources because 3 people on this planet want to completely cross over to the fruity side of computing?"

You should probably check out the Facebook thread and see that there are more than 3 people switching to Macs. If you have ever worked in the broadcast industry you would realize that it's almost impossible to collaborate unless you have a Mac. In fact dealing with most post houses is outright painful unless you have a Mac.

> "I hope you realize you could go the other way; abandon Macs and go 100% PC? That would make far more sense considering that most 3d and compositing software is either Windows only or at least has superior windows versions."

That would go against what IDC and other Market Research companies have been reporting. PC sales are declining while Mac sales are on the rise. I don't make these numbers up but I can see the trend in my business. It doesn't make sense to use a PC any longer because it's incompatible with all of the mobile devices that I use on a daily basis while the Mac integrates seamlessly with them. There is no going back. ;-)

~jr

Mac sales have been on the rise for over a decade if you believe these reports. So they have risen from 2% to 5%.

PC sales have declined from 98% to 95%

When you look at these numbers this way it's not exactly in mac's favor.

VFX and 3D is where most of computer power is used. It's practically all PC. Fusion is not available for OSX, neither are Softimage or 3DStudio Max, Maya is but like everything else available on both platforms the Windows version is superior. Gaming industry is 99.999999999999% PC. I mean it's not even close.
Sure, iPads and gadgets for zombie consumers, I'll give you that, but if you actually need to create something you are better off with a PC.

Even you said it yourself: "Apple has not updated their mac pro line in a few years". That should tell you something. Nobody's buying. Apple is a consumer company. That's where sales are coming from.


>>>>>IDC and other Market Research companies have been reporting. PC sales are declining while Mac sales are on the rise. I don't make these numbers up but I can see the trend in my business<<<<<

No, you don't make them up, but these research companies do. With Apple's money they can pay them to make up whatever numbers they want. Use your common sense. Why is their mac pro line not being updated? Because nobody's buying. Like I said, for serious VFX and 3D work PCs with Windows or Linux are far superior.

If it makes sense for you, sure use Macs, but you are a very small minority and I don't think Sony should waste time and resources on what would be an inferior version of Vegas anyway. Need proof, look at sound forge Windows vs. OSX versions.

Just buy that Smoke for Mac thing. It was supposedly a game changer. Don't know how good it really is. Those 5 people who actually bought it haven't posted any reviews yet. I guess since their mac pros are running on 7 year old chips they are still waiting for their first renders to finish.

All being said, I have nothing against Mac, but there is a problem here, and it has been well identified for many years, let alone from some of the astute commenters in this thread.

"Inter-Operability" - moving files and the translations between Mac apps and Windows apps. Witness the Quicktime dilemma! Witness the FCPX linear editor. Now granted Microsoft and Apple have been playing a game of chicken with this for a long long time. So yes, blame Microsoft for lack of the good interchange. BUT, I blame Mac more because, if they wanted to seriously gain rep, seriously gain customers, they would have chosen to be the "smarter" player in this routine development war, and move to getting interchange. It would appear they just don't get it and don' t see what a big role they COULD play.

> "Why is their mac pro line not being updated? Because nobody's buying."

Actually it is being update this year but there is no doubt that it's a much smaller market when not everyone needs a desktop anymore. This is not a PC vs Mac phenomena. That's the part you're missing. More and more consumer who in the past would to tolerate playing "system administrator" to their Windows PC's are now realizing that they can do everything they need (surf the web, visit Facebook, view email, do taxes, etc.) on a tablet with no maintenance worries. So there is no need for desktops or laptops for a lot of consumers.

The only people who need the power of a Mac Pro, or BOXX, or HP Workstation, are us content creators. Everyone else can use a tablet (iOS or Andriod) and have the darn thing just work. These are not "gadgets for zombie consumers"... they are gadgets for 99% of all consumers. As consumers PC's get old, they are replacing them with tablets. Not Mac Pro's, not HP Workstations... but Tablets! So it's like car and trucks. Most people buy cars (tablets)... a few people like us need trucks (desktops). The times they are a changin'. ;-)

~jr

Why is their mac pro line not being updated? Because nobody's buying

It's not quite that simple. Apple is seeing lots of growth in other areas and that seems to be where they're putting their resources rather than into servers and workstations. Like everyone in the computer business, they're chasing growth markets and neglecting mature markets.

Would people buy updated Apple workstations? Absolutely. Of the people using Apple's outdated workstations, many would gladly upgrade if they could. But it's not a growth market and Apple probably intends to cannibalize it in favor of MacBooks.

We're still on FCP at our shop, with no desire to migrate to FCPX. We run it on a couple of workstations and a couple of Macbook Pros. We serve the files out through a couple of XServe boxes. Those were discontinued so we hurriedly bought the second XServe as a backup. FCP was discontinued so we hurriedly bought an extra seat.

But what drives our use of Mac platforms is not Apple, it's the fact that most of the good talent we could hire in our region use Macs.

It really, really, really doesn't matter that 95% of the computer market is running Windows. What matters is where the bulk of the video editing market that we can make use of is. For, us, in our region, that's on Macs. We still use lots of PCs in house, and have tried to use them for editing, but the talent base just isn't there.

As far as any company trying to create better software or better interoperability...always keep in mind that these companies aren't in business to make computers or software. They're in business to make money.

Rob

Of course, I would expect Sony to say "Buy this Sony VIO workstation or this Sony VIO laptop" for 100% Vegas Pro compatibility and you know what... people would be more than happy to buy one. ;-)

Well, given my recent experience with a Sony TV, Blu-Ray player, DSLR and DSLT, not to mention MD, NetMD, and HiMD, I certainly would not touch hardware branded with the Sony name. Unreliable, rapidly un-supported, useless firmware updates, and don't perform as advertised.

If Sony tried to foist their hardware on me in the manner you suggest, I'd be off to Premiere Pro in no time at all. It's not a match for Vegas's fluid editing, but I could learn to adapt. The audio side of editing would be sorely missed though.

> "[i]Well, given my recent experience with a Sony TV, Blu-Ray player, DSLR and DSLT, not to mention MD, NetMD, and HiMD, I certainly would not touch hardware branded with the Sony name. Unreliable, rapidly un-supported, useless firmware updates, and don't perform as advertised.[i]"

Yea, that was kind of my second point that no one at Sony seems to be in charge of making anything work together and they operate like independent companies competing with each other instead of being well integrate like Apple is. Lots of big companies are like that not just Sony but that's why Apple can do what they do... They still act like a small company making a single set of unified products.

~jr

I really don't have any axe to grind against Apple--heck, I worked there for 5 years back in the early days of Mac and we've made a decent amount of money on Apple stock options over the years. But the impression I get is that Apple is currently not a happy company. The stock has dropped a lot over the past six months or so, young people are starting to look at iPhones as "2010 technology"--in other words, not cool. And cool is what has made Apple what it is. Jobs is gone, R.I.P., but there's a dominant buzz that the creative lifeforce died with him.

So I wish Apple no ill will but I can distinctly remember many of us in the company kicking and screaming when Jobs refused to license the excellent OS to others lo those many years ago. As a result, they went from a potential 80% PC market share to 5%. Yeah, I know, they've been very profitable and have $150B in the bank or whatever, but things are changing. One can sense it.

As for Sony the company, they've been an extremely creative force. So what if they have divisions that compete against each other? Better to have a Sony division kill off another dinosaur Sony division than have Company XYZ build the same product that kills off the division. And I've never had any Sony product that wasn't reliable or didn't meet spec. I use two Sony camcorders and the things are built like tanks.

That said, what benefit is there for Sony to put Vegas on Mac? As earlier stated, most NLE gurus are FCP. And it's not like Mac hardware is superior to PC hardware; in fact, the opposite is probably the case. So does Sony think that Mac shops are dying for an alternative to FCP and Abobe? I have no idea, maybe Sony has access to surveys that say so. My own gut feel is no. Are PCs dying out? Gimme a break. My wife is leaving for a week of skiing in Colorado at 5am tomorrow. She was going to take her iPad, then decided she would need to do "real" work for a day or two, so is packing the little PC laptop instead. Are tablets great for surfing the web and email? Yup. If that's pretty much all a home user does, is a big desktop PC necessary? Nope. But are PCs dying out? Don't think so.

> "So does Sony think that Mac shops are dying for an alternative to FCP and Abobe?"

Good question. FCP X has gotten more and more "Vegas like" in it's feature set breaking away from the three-point-editing paradigm of Adobe and Avid and becoming a more fluid timeline editor like Vegas. Where Apple fumbled was omitting pro features from the initial version which lead to the big exodus to Adobe and Avid for many FCP 7 editors. That could have been a windfall for Vegas Pro had it been on the Mac. As far as I can tell, Adobe and Avid are still a lot harder to use than they need to be and not nearly as fast to edit with as Vegas. If Sony could bring Vegas to the Mac, it could still capture this market. I hear that Apple is doing a big push next week at NAB to bring professional editors back to FCP X so Apple hasn't abandoned the pro market just yet.

> "That said, what benefit is there for Sony to put Vegas on Mac?"

Protect user base erosion. As more Vegas Pro editors move to the Mac it would be better to have them remain with Sony rather than move to FCP, Adobe, or Avid. If Sony is OK with being the only NLE that doesn't support the Mac then I guess that's their decision to make and Adobe and Avid are clearly out of their minds for wasting any resources to support the Mac. ;-)

Don't forget, the original post that started this thread was from a former Vegas Pro editor who moved to the Mac and wanted to know if Vegas was available for the Mac. So the "benefit for Sony" is to not loose a customer.

~jr