Comments

farss wrote on 2/23/2013, 1:21 PM
"So the FS700 records up to 109% but does not record the deep blacks (data bits 16 to 255)."

Nothing new there, pretty well every video camera does this.
Your "does not record the deep blacks" is wrong thinking. It probably records black at 5% as required by Rec 709. It doesn't get any blacker than black.

"How do you guys preview the image correctly in Vegas preview window?"

Firstly the Preview Monitor is for editing, not colour grading, use the Secondary Display for making critical decisions about grading.
If you must use the internal preview monitor then add a Levels FX using the FX Icon at the top of the monitor pane.

Set Input Start to 0.063 and all the other values to 1.000. This assumes your monitor is calibrated for Computer RGB of some sort or the other.

Warning: The FX added to the Preview Monitor is one and the same as the one on the Video Bus and will affect your rendered output. Remember to disable the FX before rendering.

Bob.
essami wrote on 2/23/2013, 6:42 PM
Hi,

Ok well this is exactly what I have done. I'm using an external monitor and with GH2 material it shows exactly as it should. BUT with FS700 footage somethings wrong with this logic. Let me try to explain. There must be something wrong with some of my settings. But here's what happens.

GH2 AVCHD material shows clipped highlights in the preview window, as expected. On external monitor I see the highlights as I expect them to be and all data is there.

But on the FS700 material I see clipped highlights in the external monitor and data is lost (not what I'd expect) and I see what I assume is the proper material in the preview window with no clipped highlights. Also with FS700 material when I render I get what I see on the preview window NOT what I see on the external monitor.

Here's a picture to show you what I see on my preview window and on my external monitor: http://samisanpakkila.com/images/FS700prob.jpg Both materials on the same timeline.

Sami
farss wrote on 2/23/2013, 10:51 PM
Which Version of Vegas?
On the external monitor do you have "Adjust levels from Studio RGB to Computer RGB" checked?

Bob.
essami wrote on 2/24/2013, 4:26 AM
"On the external monitor do you have "Adjust levels from Studio RGB to Computer RGB" checked?"

Thanks very much Bob! This was indeed the problem!

Sami

PS: Im using Vegas Pro 10.
essami wrote on 2/24/2013, 5:03 AM

Ok so now I have the highlights figured out and am seeing them correctly in the external monitor. How about the blacks? What I see in the external monitor looks washed out. If I apply a levels adjustment "input start 0,063" the blacks look blacker and to me that looks like more what I'd expect and also what I see on the FS700 monitor.

It also seems that with the "input start 0,063" levels ON I get the same result when I render as I see on the external monitor.

Am I wrong here or not? Should I use the "input start 0,063" levels setting on the FS700 footage even for the external monitoring when I do color correction AND leave it on for when I render as well?

Sami
farss wrote on 2/24/2013, 6:32 AM
"Should I use the "input start 0,063" levels setting on the FS700 footage even for the external monitoring when I do color correction AND leave it on for when I render as well?"

Yes, No.

Here's the thing though.
I always have my Secondary Display Device (Asus 24" ProArt) with 16 to 235 On.

My EX1 shoots 16 to 255 and mostly I use CineGamma 4 so I use a Colour Curve to get that into 16 to 235. In your case I'd apply that as a track FX but that depends on which gamma curve you select in the FS700. For the standard gamma you could just use the same Levels FX as I mentioned before.

The GH2 I guess shoots 0 to 255. So put that footage on another track, apply Levels FX to that track as well but select the ComputerRGB to SudioRGB Preset.

There's no hard and fast rules here however I always find it best to setup my external monitor to close to Rec 709 i.e. 16 to 235 as that's pretty much what I'll always render to anyway. Then anything odd goes on it's own track so it can be colour corrected as needed. Sometimes I have three or four different cameras to deal with

Bob.


essami wrote on 2/24/2013, 10:15 AM
Ok I see what you mean. I use mostly cine4 as well on my FS700. What's the difference between using levels vs. a colour curve? Just so you can set it by eye rather then numbers?

It's a bit like playing chess this cc business. :) I just had my GH2 work process figured out but now I got a new opponent! :D Been very happy with the FS700 though.

So just confirming that there is basically no way to get a "what you see is what you get" view on the external monitor without applying some sort of levels/curve to the footage with 16-255 material?

Thanks a lot for your help! Much appreaciated.

Sami
farss wrote on 2/24/2013, 2:06 PM
"What's the difference between using levels vs. a colour curve?"

Curves lets me adjust everything. For example the Cine gammas retain more highlights but compress the lower mids, the image can look flat. By adding nodes to the curve I can roll off the highlights whilst bringing up the midtones without lifting the blacks.


"So just confirming that there is basically no way to get a "what you see is what you get" view on the external monitor without applying some sort of levels/curve to the footage with 16-255 material?"

"What you see is what you get" is a dubious concept here. "What you see is what your audience will see" is the issue. Most displays (HDTVs, YouTube etc) display 16 as black and 235 as white. By setting up my Secondary Display to do the same I get to see the footage as my audience will. The next issue then is to conform the footage into that range of values.

The internal preview is indeed an issue with Vegas. As revealed in a recent and long thread ever other NLE does their preview monitor much better than Vegas. We're stuck having to do our own intervention. In my case I use an old Dell 24" as the monitor my T/L and internal prview lives on and that monitor is just plain horrible in terms of calibration, I never try to judge how my footage looks on it.

Bob.