Subject:Ideal Volume Levels

Posted by: mrryansan

Date:12/4/2001 2:38:12 PM

I have been having a problem with recording several songs all with different volume levels. For example let's say I have my speakers set at a certain volume level and play two songs I made. One will be quieter than the other etc.. I try normalizing the two files but the quiter one just sounds somewhat distorted afterwards.

I was wondering... When recording songs, what volume level do you strive for? How do studios get their songs all at the right volume level. What volume level do they strive for so that when you put in one bands CD, and then put in another bands CD, they are at the same volume level on the CD player. I want to make sure when I record my instruments and get the tracks down, that I can mix it at the right volume level before making the master.

Please help.

Subject:RE: Ideal Volume Levels

Reply by: VU-1

Date:12/4/2001 5:37:54 PM

The process you are eluding to is called Mastering. In the commercial music market, this is primarily done at a dedicated Mastering Studio by a highly skilled Mastering Engineer using specialized equipment. Normalizing your .wav files is generally not an equivalent procedure.

In tracking (recording) the instruments for a song, the engineer strives to get maximum recorded signal level for each instrument as allowed by the processing gear and the recording medium used (give and take a little for different instruments - you don't "slam" a hi-hat to the red).

During mixdown, the engineer strives for max output (without clipping) of the master bus and records to the mix medium (DAT, reel-to-reel tape, etc.) at a sufficiently hot level so as to gain a maximum signal-to-noise ratio.

One thing you can do to help in this process is to mark your control room fader (volume knob) & check all your mixes at that level. Also, regularly check your master buss meters while mixing to see what level you are at with the current mix.

JL
OTR

Subject:RE: Ideal Volume Levels

Reply by: mrryansan

Date:12/4/2001 8:02:37 PM

Sorry this is probably a really easy topic but I'm pretty new to recording.

So at that point where it starts to go into the red, do you strive to get the overall volume level of a song right up to that point? And if so, is that point representative of a certain level in decibals that is the ideal level that all masters strive for?

For example if I had my song at around just that level... and were to burn it on a cd... and play it on a cd player... would it be at the same volume level as a CD I bought of a band?

Subject:RE: Ideal Volume Levels

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:12/4/2001 10:39:57 PM

OTR, gave an excellent response. The easy answer to your follow up question is NO. Mastering engineers use many different techniques to bring the average volume level up of a song. One of these processes is called "Multi-band" compression. A mastering engineer really does a balancing act. Lots of people when going to a mastering engineer, perceive the mentality of "Louder is Better". Usually a mastering engineer using compression techniques will try and compress the audio (ie not .MP3 type of compression...this is actually a compression of the dynamics range) as much as possible without sucking the life out of the song, but just enough that it gives the song extract life, and punch and makes it as loud as current CD's on the market in similar music areas. This compression usually borders on the edge of distortion, while still trying to maintain the feeling of the song. Try and push it to the limit and back off a little. Mastering is not a quick explanation and will really require some background reading and experimenting around afterwards to find out what it's really about.

Subject:RE: Ideal Volume Levels

Reply by: VU-1

Date:12/4/2001 11:52:39 PM

As Red said - unfortunately the answer is 'Probably No'. If you are using the meters included with Sound Forge, those meters are what are called 'Peak' meters. That means that they display instantaneous peak values. A VU meter - a real, mechanical meter with a needle (remember those?) - displays average levels. VU meters do not respond as fast as digital peak meters (or LED peak meters such as on a Mackie mixer), however, they more closely resemble the way the human ear responds to sound waves. Generally speaking, a peak meter will read higher than a VU meter for the same given audio material (for the reason explained above). Any given song can have very high peak values but remain rather low on the average level. As Red explained, when dynamic compression is applied, the average level is increased by knocking down the peaks and then raising the level of the entire program thus bringing up the lower level material. The dynamic range (difference between lowest & highest volume levels) has just been reduced so the average volume level - also referred to as RMS (Root Mean Squared - a WHOLE other lesson in itself) - has just been raised. Result - the song sounds louder.

There are 2 very easy ways that you can see how your mix stacks up to a commercial CD.

1) Digitally load in a song off a commercial CD that you are interested in comparing your stuff to (you don't have to save it). Pull up the Normalize function and hit the Scan button. Note the peak (probably 0.0 or very close to that) & RMS readings. Next, do a scan of your mix that you want to check & compare the peak & RMS values to that of the commercial tune. You will find that for most Rock music, the RMS values will be somewhere around the -10.0 to -14.0 dB range. -10.0 dB RMS is REALLY hot!!

2) On my Mastering reference CD, which is a compilation CD of major label tunes that I think sound great, I also put a 30sec track of a 1kHz tone at -8.0dB peak level. This came from a .wav file that stays on my C: drive. I use this file and the CD track to set my mixer inputs for my sound card, CD burner and various other equipment to the same level. I also have a set of VU meters and use the 1kHz tone to set them to 0dB when the input peak meter reads 0dB. This VU setting is arbritrary and is NOT intended to indicate what the main buss output level is. It is merely a reference point for comparison purposes. In doing this, I can very easily check where my masters stand as compared to the big boys' stuff. Also, I find it easier to check the dynamic range of a song using VU meters - typically (for most rock, pop, country, etc.) it is about 10 dB.
You can do the same thing by making a file and a CD, Mini-disc, DAT, etc. with a similar tone on them and set up your mixer so that all your gear inputs are equivalent and just do an A-B listening test. Keep in mind, however, that unless you are MASTERING rather than MIXING, your cuts will almost always lose because the material on commercial CDs has already been mastered - which almost always raises the volume level.

Also keep in mind that different styles of music require different sonic treatment. For example, Classical music typically has a much wider dynamic range than Rock music, even though the level of the loud moments in a Classical tune can be right up there with that of a Rock tune. Be sensitive to the music - it doesn't always need to be loud just for loud's sake.

JL
OTR

Subject:RE: Ideal Volume Levels

Reply by: mrryansan

Date:12/5/2001 8:21:37 PM

Phenomenal!! Do you recommend any books for me to read to improve my recording skills?