Subject:Acid Beatmapper DJ or loop - which is tightest?

Posted by: buckaroo

Date:10/4/2012 3:07:07 AM

I have been using Acid Pro 3.0 and its beatmapper, to get full tracks bpm'd and locked to the grid so that I can add samples and mashup/bootleg samples to existing tracks.

Now I have been beatmapping these as best I can on an old PC, and Acid Pro 3 has been fine for me. But what I thought were 'locked' full tracks in the Beatmapper and on the timeline (as loops overlays were perfect) now seem that the beatmapper has drifted in and out on bars making it hard to mix on another computer program Mixmeister..and Ableton as some of the beats are slightly off and then back in again..

This is my fault, as Stupidly I didnt do EVERY beat in Beatmapper, and now I'm thinking that these are hard to mix live on CD, as the beat drifts on the new rendered Acid mashups! - so im thinking this may have repercussions when mixing live on a CD deck, that the beats drift slightly every 8 bars or so (due to my quick beatmapping) that sounded ok and tight when making the track, as its now rendered and burnt to CD with this slight tempo drift ??


This is only noticeable once tracks are in another program such as Mixmeister or Reaper as the beats are 'in' then drift out, then drift in again!! Also im thinking this may have repercussions when mixing live on a CD deck, that the beats drift slightly every 8 bars or so (due to my quick beatmapping) that sounded ok and tight when making the track, as its now rendered and burnt to CD with this slight tempo drift

So how to rectify this quickly!!

Would it be easier to import the tracks to the timeline and instead of Beatmapping again (oh god!) that I cut the track into 64 bar loops, and Acid lock the track to the timeline that way on its own?

Is looping and cutting a track into sections tighter than beatmapping a whole track which could have cause to drift if you miss a few bars?

Secondly is the beatmapper improved at all in later versions of Acid?

I do have Sony Acid 6.0, as well as SF Acid 3.0 - but i thought the beatmapper stayed the same, and even heard that the older sonic foundry was tighter?!

Please help as I need to re-burn and re-edit these tracks and I'm thinking looping might be the way forward?

Lesson learnt!

Subject:RE: Acid Beatmapper DJ or loop - which is tightest?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:10/4/2012 1:53:15 PM

I don't know if this helps any but in ACID Pro 7, Beatmapped tracks can now be adjusted for multiple tempos. (e.g., A track that goes from 110 to 120 BPM can be fine tuned within the clip's properties and have it work with the overall project's tempo. You can even change the root note and time signature in there.)

ON EDIT: I also can't remember offhand when this feature made it in but I'm pretty sure it was version 7. I believe the new Music Studio 9 has this feature too.

Subject:RE: Acid Beatmapper DJ or loop - which is tightest?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:10/4/2012 2:35:16 PM

Thats great in Pro 7, but not really what im after..

I use all tracks for DJing at one rigid tempo, so i would like to import a track and get it perfect beatmapped at say 145bpm without any drift.

Or is Ableton now better at this than Acid? Is Acid's beatmapper flexible so that you can move grid lines and it doesn't move others?

Subject:RE: Acid Beatmapper DJ or loop - which is tightest?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:10/4/2012 3:13:09 PM

Let's say you have you have a Beatmapped track/clip that isn't perfectly 120 BPM all the way through (i.e., has drift). You can go into the clip's properties and add/adjust beatmapping markers for those times it drifts.

ACID will then "lock" these markers and sections to your overall project's tempo.

For example, if a section of your track is actually 118.620 BPM in the clip properties, ACID will stretch that to 120 BPM if that is what your overall project tempo is.

Does that make it clearer?

Subject:RE: Acid Beatmapper DJ or loop - which is tightest?

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:10/9/2012 4:20:29 AM

Ok so does the beatmapper work by moving the whole grid to the beat, or moving the bars further down the line, just move those beats?

We are still unsure that if you re-render a beatmapped remix in a project that isnt exactly BEAT perfect (but still sounds ok) in Acid and its beatmapper, that this wouldn't be as locked as the normal track due to the tiny fluctuations where the beat isn't dead on (but is un-noticeable)

would this affect a CD playing live when mixing tight beats?

The only reason I ask is some of my Acid beatmapped remixes seemed to be in/out/in of the beat on another program (Mixmeister) but this was a computer and zoomed in, and it sounded 'out'

Would this affect in a live situation or make it harder for me for locked beat-matched tracks when DJing? - If so, I would probably move to Ableton ...

Or does the beatmapper work by tightening up each bar as you move through the song giving you one fine tuned tempo overall for the track?

I am on Acid Pro 3 if that helps and not the later versions where the beatmapper can cope with multiple tempo changes (dont think i need that)

Subject:RE: Acid Beatmapper DJ or loop - which is tightest?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:10/9/2012 1:33:06 PM

For simplicity's sake, take a look at this quick example I made, which illustrates a Beatmapped track of a simple kick in 4/4 time:



Note how it starts on 120 BPM, changes to 100 BPM in the middle (at measure 9) and then to 110 BPM at the end (at measure 21). Note also that each change corresponds to the first downbeat of that measure.

Now take a look at this same Beatmapped track, imported into an ACID project at an overall tempo of 100 BPM:



Note where the cursor is, which is at the same measure where 100 BPM occurs naturally in the track in the clip's properties. There's something different here, however.

Since the overall ACID project is 100 BPM, ACID *must* stretch the previous section (which is at 120 BPM) to accommodate for the new tempo. (You can actually see this happening when you look at the waveform as tempo changes occur when stretching.)

So as long as your tempo changes occur where you want them to, ACID will snap them to the overall project's tempo.

If I were to move the 100 BPM beatmapping marker in the clip properties, it would (naturally) change its current tempo and the previous marker's tempo but *not* the marker that comes after it. This would probably be the "tightening" you're looking for in cases of slight drift.

You *cannot* do this in previous versions of ACID up until like ACID Pro version 6 (I think; don't quote me on that). It's a fairly recent addition (and one I think is new in ACID Music Studio 9).

ON EDIT: Didn't realize how much the images would shrink, so if it's difficult to see, I'll provide direct links to the images.