Subject:SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Posted by: DD12

Date:9/6/2012 6:00:10 AM

Upgraded my PC to 64bit i7:
- i7 2600K Intel Sandybridge 4core, 8thread CPU
- Jetway Q67 based mainboard
- 16GB RAM
- Windows7 Pro OEM x64

SOUNDFORGE 9.0e installed as Administrator from cleaned registry.
Software ran the registration process just fine. But, gets a few seconds into the load, splash screen up (where it says initalising audio engine) and promptly crashes.

Tried removing and reinstalling several times. Same results. Tried Forge10 as well, with same result. Something in the engine.

The sound card is an RME Fireface on a PCI Lacie TI chipset FW800 card.
Anyone experience anything similar? I could use some pointers.

Visual Studio 2012 Debugger shows:
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\Forge90.exe'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\KernelBase.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\forgek.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\shell32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msvcrt.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\shlwapi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\gdi32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\user32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\advapi32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\sechost.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\rpcrt4.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\sspicli.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\cryptbase.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\lpk.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\usp10.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\winmm.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msimg32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ole32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\oleaut32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc80.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_8.0.50727.6195_none_d09154e044272b9a\msvcr80.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\version.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msvfw32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.7601.17514_none_41e6975e2bd6f2b2\comctl32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msacm32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\mpr.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\netapi32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\netutils.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\srvcli.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\wkscli.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\frgusr.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\frgvid.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\frgplugs.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\IPHLPAPI.DLL'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\nsi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\winnsi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\setupapi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\cfgmgr32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\devobj.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\wininet.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\normaliz.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\iertutil.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\urlmon.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\sfcdix.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\sfscsi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\sfspti2.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\sfspti.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\sfs4rw.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\imm32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msctf.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\uxtheme.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\MMDevAPI.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\propsys.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\wdmaud.drv'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ksuser.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\avrt.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\AudioSes.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msacm32.drv'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\midimap.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\dhcpcsvc.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ws2_32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\wintrust.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\crypt32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msasn1.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\sfmarket2.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\dciman32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\dwmapi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\clbcatq.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\aviplug\aviplug.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\avifil32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\qt7plug\qt7plug.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Sound Forge 9.0\Audio Hardware Drivers\sfasio.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msiltcfg.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\digiasio.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\DirectIO.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\DSI.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\powrprof.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_5.82.7601.17514_none_ec83dffa859149af\comctl32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\comdlg32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\profapi.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntmarta.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Wldap32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
'Forge90.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\fireface_asio.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
The thread 0x11d8 has exited with code 0 (0x0).
Forge90.exe has triggered a breakpoint.

> ntdll.dll!772d15de() Unknown
[Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for ntdll.dll]
ntdll.dll!772d15de() Unknown
ntdll.dll!772c014e() Unknown
kernel32.dll!74e014dd() Unknown
DSI.dll!046ea862() Unknown
DSI.dll!046eddea() Unknown
DSI.dll!046eddf0() Unknown
ntdll.dll!772e9ab1() Unknown
ntdll.dll!77307d72() Unknown
KernelBase.dll!74a43a6e() Unknown
kernel32.dll!74e033a1() Unknown
ntdll.dll!772e9ef2() Unknown
ntdll.dll!772e9ec5() Unknown

Thanks.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/6/2012 10:21:58 AM

Pointer: Don't attempt to run v9 on Windows 7 64bit. It is not designed for it nor is Windows 7 (any flavor) supported on v9.

If you must stay with v9 - Windows XP is where you need to be.

FYI: Forge 10 (32bit) works perfectly on my new Windows 7 x64 SP1 build - just done last week.

VP

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/6/2012 3:11:50 PM

Sorry - SF10 does exactly the same on this system as v9. Crashes trying to initialise the audio engine. I posted the traces because they may offer clues. I'll bet it's SxS and the VC redistributable or something similar. Looks like it's trying to call methods that just don't exist.

I can run it up and get the trace.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/6/2012 8:25:34 PM

Well - if your trace is in fact ending right after this file attempts to load:

fireface_asio.dll

That is pointing to the actual audio driver itself.

For what it's worth - I am running an RME Multiface II on my system and Forge has no issues. If it's failing when trying to fire up the audio engine - then it's most likely something wrong with your RME install or possibly something more serious.

Does any other app on the system not start and complain about the RME? Is the RME working fine in Device Manager? Have you checked the system logs?

VP

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/7/2012 2:14:26 AM

RME Fireface works fine as default hardware in the system. No problem running Media Player or similar. Mind you, that COULD be using the MME driver rather than ASIO. Certainly worth an un/reinstall.

Tried running v10 of SF - claims my trial has expired... oh, great. I have even used SF10. Uninstalled, reinstalled, it still thinks a trial has expired.

Uninstalled the RME Fireface, installed SF9.0, no good. Exactly the same error. Something does not work with the engine initialisation.
Forge9.0 error 3764 after trying to load "dsound.dll"

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/7/2012 7:21:22 AM

Well - it seems that tho you have some other issues deeper in the bowels of the OS or something. Perhaps something else installed (plugins etc) that are causing the issue. For the record - dsound.dll is a standard Microsoft DirectX library. I have the file on my DAW...it's the standard build that came with Windows 7 SP1. Have never had an error on it.

I suspect that you may need to reinstall a bunch of things to get this right...from .NET stuff to VC redistros etc etc.

Also - once SF10 says it's "trial" is done...it's done. There are a host of reg keys storing that info. The only way around it is to reinstall the OS to really get down to the bottom of this.

But I can tell you that Forge works fine in Win 7 64bit with RME hardware. Not sure what's on your machine to make your install suddenly go south...

Maybe list EVERYTHING that you have installed in addition to Forge (Plus a more detailed hardware list) and maybe that will give us an idea on what's interfering here?

VP

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/7/2012 8:36:00 AM

HW - Jetway JNAF92 Q67 Motherboard, i7 8core 2600k processor, 16Gb RAM, ProToolsHD core card, Lacie FW800 card, USB2.0 card, USB radio network device, iLok device, RME Fireface on FW800, onboard VGA, MIDIsportUNO USB device.
SW
Win7 x64 SP1 new
Motherboard drivers
Windows Update
-
Visual Studio 2012 (.NET4.5) RC
SQL Server 2008 R2 SP1 180day trial
Office 2010 Home licensed
MS CWAT authoring tool
ProToolsHD 8.1.1 licensed by iLok
EditPlus licensed
DirectX SDK June10

That's about it. Only built it about 2 weeks ago No plugins beyond Noise Reduction.
Problems appeared when PT8.1.1 when in to update PT8.0.0.
PT8.1.1 works fine.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/7/2012 8:37:38 AM

One idea is dual boot and XP SP3. Don't mind rebuilding from scratch. Data is on a separate drive.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/7/2012 9:15:12 AM

Q: With respect to your PTools remark - are you saying that Forge WAS working fine right up until you upgraded ProTools? Or what?

Now with respect to these items...

Visual Studio 2012 (.NET4.5) RC
SQL Server 2008 R2 SP1 180day trial
DirectX SDK June10

None of them should ever be on any DAW and if it's not PT causing the issues - I would not be surprised if one (or more) of these is responsible...Visual Studio is a particualr POS that completely "owns" any computer and totally messes with/reroutes a ton of important libraries, distros etc.

Bottom line - in order for us to really help you - you have to get your install to be completely relevant to what many of us consider to be true "DAW" builds. As in... base OS, base hardware drivers, your primary DAW apps, plugins - and that's it.

If you are attempting to install a slew of huge "development" tools and then use it as a DAW too - you are asking for major conflict at every corner.

All I know is - I (and many others here) have Windows 7 x64 with DAW software ONLY and Forge fires right up with no problem....as it should.

Finally - virtually guaranteed the Forge will be just fine in a clean XP SP3 environment.

VP

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/7/2012 12:27:16 PM

I will have to disagree. I have had VS running on many PCs without messing anything up before now. For example, it coexisted with PT8.1.1 on Win XP SP3 with ALL my Sony software up to 3weeks ago. I have a lot of titles and versions. And on my Dell laptop (OK no PT on that obviously). Sony probably use it to develop this stuff in the first place. I seriously doubt they are candidates for issues here.

I think it's likely to be ProTools. It has a nasty habit of insisting on iLok drivers with encumbant VC distros that are old.

Yes, SF was working to the moment PT8.1.1 went in.

With respect, I think most pro audio suppliers completely ignore Microsoft when it comes to development. Anyone here seen a driver you didn't have to ignore warnings about? We get so used to it.

I take your point it would be simpler to just have PT and Sony Forge on one box, but just those two insist on installing 6 VC distros between them. 32/64/branded.

I am thinking dual boot is the answer here.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/7/2012 12:39:00 PM

Thanks for all your help.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/7/2012 1:15:14 PM

Yes, SF was working to the moment PT8.1.1 went in.

Well...that sums it up I guess. While I am certain that I come across a bunch of guys that have PT and Forge - I suspect it's probably not Forge 9 and PT 8.1.1.

To solve your original issue tho - you would have to get PT off of there completely or roll it back to a version that plays nice with Forge 9.

Bottom line...Forge should work without issue on WIndows 7 64bit - as long as it's VC libraries can function without being disrupted by something else.

Cheers,

VP

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/7/2012 2:45:19 PM

I was never happy with the PT install. I am keen rebuild it. But if SF won't do it's thing. Dual boot is my solution. I know all these titles work on XP.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/7/2012 2:56:59 PM

What debugger output is telling me that either the rme ASIO driver is crashing or something else is.

A simple test. Locate the. Rme ASIO dll and move it to a different location. Start forge - outside of the debugger.

If it starts, then you know it is something with that ASIO driver.

If not, where did forge fail? run it the debugger again to see where it failed.

PTools can install a number of drivers that are limited but can still be accessed by forge.

Do you have any Digi hardware installed?

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: DD12

Date:9/8/2012 5:47:50 PM

Thanks for chiming in Peter.

yes, I uninstalled the ASIO drivers, and tried again. The soundcard for the motherboard was still in there, so I left that active. Same result - I mentioned it failed at dlsound.dll. Research on the web showed that to be part of DirectX so I popped a recent SDK with DirectX on there to see if I could overwrite/update that dll but no joy. Same result.

RME's ASIO driver is pretty solid.

I have pretty much decided to dual boot to separate Sony from Avid and the development software. 1Tb drive and 4 partitions.

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/8/2012 6:34:34 PM

We have no problems with the RME drivers here. We have always the RME hardware and drivers to work with out problems.

So why you are having problems is not apparent.

One possible cause is a conflict between the Windows system audio and the RME. If you have told Windows to use the RME for its default audio output and input, this could result in a conflict.

Try assigning your Windows audio defaults to your internal sound card. Verify that the RME is not enabled for use by Windows directly and play some audio using media player or some other app to assure that audio is streaming correctly to the built in audio device of your system.

Does forge start now?

Once more my question.

I the visual studio debug output, there are many references to PTools related dlls. You stated that problem you encountered started after installing PTools.

What model of PTools did you install? The MAudio version? LE?

What PTools 8 compatible hardware did you install?

Is it possible to revert your machine to a state before you installed PTools?

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9.0 Windows 7 64bit First Run

Reply by: Bob N

Date:2/21/2013 5:51:59 PM

I have been running SF 9c with no problems on Win 7[32bit].