Subject:AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Posted by: RRA

Date:8/25/2012 3:54:50 PM

Hi Peter,

I have installed demo of AMS9 because of info, that new feature is monitoring sound during recording, Have configured system using ASIO drivers (first attemtp for original Digitech RP350 ASIO driver (this is device which I would like to hear durign playing, with real real time effects on input), then on Realtek ASIO driver).

Can't start this feature : button switching input monitoring in mixing console on/off is always OFF (white one) - can't switch to RED.

I have isntalled latest driver suitable for my chipset for Realtek integrated sound card.

Any ideas how to solve this problem ? If it would be possible to start this feature I will buy upgrade immediately.

Best regards,

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/26/2012 12:26:28 PM

I have an RP255 with ACID Pro 7; input monitoring using the RP255's ASIO driver works as intended.

Could be software and/or hardware as my setup is different from yours.

I take it you're using the latest driver for the RP350?

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: RRA

Date:8/26/2012 2:07:09 PM

Hi LACOBUS,

Yes, probably this is charm of integrated sound card. I have installed last drivers for both : digitech and also chipset and sound card on main board. It doesn't work. The same result is with ASIO4all driver.

I have also checked NI Guitar Rig, the same.

Problem generaly is with output : I can import singal from Digitech USB ASIO driver (and for other also), but can't route it for the same output as rest of signals. If for example use in AMS Digitech ASIO driver, it will only propose as output DIGITECH USB ASIO output - so no way - have to come back with singal to device and do monitoring from Digitech level.

I was reckoned, that AMS9 will overcome this obstacle, but it looks like it's not problem of AMS9 - rather problem of organisation of signal routing in sound card. Universal ASIO4all driver can't see Digitech input and Digitech ASIO driver can't see any other output then Digitech USB.

Best regards,

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/26/2012 4:37:38 PM

It sounds like you want to input from one audio card and output from a different card.

This is not possible using ASIO.

Peter

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: RRA

Date:8/30/2012 3:58:49 PM

Hi Peter,

What acctually I would like to achieve is very basic (not PRO for sure). I would like to connect my guitar via Digitech RP350 processor (with help of included USB and driver) and then listen during play and be able to mix, to apply FXs and to hear from my headphones connected to PC (as I always do, when I want for example to listen youtube).

Unfortunatelly can't achieve this config... fighing 10 years without succes... all combinations are leading me to connect headphones to Digitech and to use internal Digitech SendOut/SendIn mixer.

This always causes, that there is cosmic gape in quality and filling of recorded music, when I'm comming back to listen from comp, what I have done recorded.

best regards,

RRA

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/31/2012 7:49:42 AM

I understand what you want.

Record through the Digitech and monitor through the built in audio output.

ASIO drivers have a limitation that prevent this. Even if they didn't, you'd have a sync problem between the input and the output because they are physically different devices.

Reading the RP350 manual, it states that the USB connection permits input and output. You should be able to set up ACID to record from and play through the device using ASIO and monitor what you are recording and what is playing back on the time line through the device. You should be able to plug in your headphones to the device and monitor.

The only other option is to try locating ASIO drivers for your built in audio hardware - or try ASIOForAll - and connect the output of the Digitech to the input of your PC audio.

Peter

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: RRA

Date:8/31/2012 10:53:52 AM

Hi Peter,

Thank you, this is exactly my case.

I have been trying ASIO4All and dedicated driver for Realtek (the latest version has ASIO implemented) but unfortunatelly with these drivers AMS can't allow me to monitor (switch monitor buton always is white). Suppose this is feature of audio card.

I will have to connect Digitech just as analog device to input of sound card. I think also about universald guitar USB connection (like from Behringer GUITAR LINK UCG102) : so my route will be :
guitar->to digitech->as analog to Behringer->via USB to comp sound card

But I'm still not sure if it will work as expected. Do you have any idea ? Maybe from other users ? can't google it...

Best regards,

RRA

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/31/2012 1:06:09 PM

So you cannot change the input monitor state when you are using ASIO drivers for your Realtek?

That does not sound right. As long as you are using ASIO, input monitoring should be enabled. Input monitoring only requires the use of ASIO drivers. The actual hardware has no control over this.

Peter

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/31/2012 1:16:35 PM

As Peter mentioned, you can use the RP350 as an audio interface. I've done this with my RP255. You will hear everything that goes on and should be able to monitor input at the track level (as I can).

ACID > RP350 > headphones would be your best bet.

It almost sounds that you're not getting the expected level you want from the RP 350 itself? Make sure you use the X-Edit program as it allows you to change the output at the USB level. (I think you mentioned this but I wanted to be sure.)

You might also consider playing with the output levels of the cab and amp sims as well as the overall output for the preset, which you can also do via the X-Edit software. By default, they're way too quiet (at least for my tastes). I can barely get around -15.0 to -10.0 dBFS no matter what I do otherwise.

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: RRA

Date:8/31/2012 1:36:01 PM

Yes, can not do this, that was the reason that I posted this post. But have red a lot of info (not very fantastic) about capability of integrated sound cards and supposte here is the source of problem.

"ASIO drivers have a limitation that prevent this" - this is very intriguing, remember I'm not pro : what is the reason of prevention in this place ?

Best regards,

RRA

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: RRA

Date:8/31/2012 1:45:51 PM

I have been not precise in my previous post : gap is in the quality of listening music not in levels. I know about possiblity to establish ballance between signals sent and received via USB : one is, as you have mentioned in Xedit, but also first row of matrix in every preset allow this.

That's my casual workflow today, that I'm comming back with singal to Digitech and monitoring on headphones connected to Digitech. But Digitech is much more powerfull in terms of dynamics of signal, then my comp card. Unfortunatelly : I deliver music for comp applications and users will hear it exactly as it is in comp, with rather mid quality.

I would like to work on material, which sounds exactly as will sound for enduser. Just to have wysiswyg (hear in this case). Sound strange, but I'm practical gay - many time I was luring on some 'diamonds' in sound, then my users even haven't noticed this.

Best regards,

RRA

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/31/2012 2:56:10 PM

You mentioned you have a Behringer mixer, correct?

Connect the analog outs on the RP350 to the mixer, then (I'm assuming) to your monitors, where you should be able to get an accurate representation of the overall mix.

As far as I know, unless something's amiss, the RP350 can output 24-bit, 44.1 kHz audio.

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/31/2012 3:05:48 PM

Only one ASIO driver can be used at a time. That is you cannot have two physical audio devices and use boths ASIO drivers with in the same app at the same time. This is a limitation of how ASIO drivers are defined. (We actually tried a work around for this problem, and the problems made it pointless, if not useless.). ASIO was defined as a single hardware model solution.

Even if you could, synchronizing the input of one with the input of the other would be difficult and the low latency that ASIO provides for use in input monitoring would be gone. Additionally both cards would have to have their sample frequencies locked the sample rates could drift apart.

Peter

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/31/2012 8:10:19 PM

I guess I don't understand why recording and monitoring through then Digitech would affect the final mix.

Once you get your parts recorded, you can switch to the Realtek card and mix with it. Then you can mix to accommodate for that card and your monitoring system, of that is what you want to do.

Mixing while tracking is trying to solve two problems at the same time. Sure it can be done, but it is a limiting workflow at best.

Peter

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: RRA

Date:9/8/2012 11:08:11 AM

Thank You Gentlemans,

I have another issue connected with this subject : I think to buy Epiphone Ultra III guitar, which has her own USB connection to computer (suppose also driver, and will try to behave exactly like digitech).

Do you know how it will be possible to work with this guitar in AMS ? Where will be the output ? Woulb be possible to insert VST effect and use it durign recording in real time ?

PS. Ditech has quality of sound as you have mentioned, I don't know internal routing (and where exaclty phones are connected) but there is no comparision between quality (during listeng) of sound directly from Digitech and from my computer audio card (even sound is recorded with the same quality) - distance between this both is cosmic. Maybe just quality of headphone amplifier on the output from computer ? Don't know.

Best regards,

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/10/2012 7:17:47 AM

It does not look like the Epiphone has an output that can be streamed to from any host. I could not locate any documentation on this, so you should research it.

Peter

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/10/2012 2:13:53 PM

I found a blurb at Musician's Friend:

---

"Hook-Up Directly To Your Computer
The Ultra-III features three different outputs. By using the standard 1/4" MONO output, both the Humbuckers and NanoMag are mixed into one signal. When you plug another 1/4" cable into it's STEREO output, the Humbuckers are routed through one cable and the NanaMag the other. In this way, you can send the Humbuckers to your favorite guitar amp and the NanoMag to the PA or an acoustic guitar amp. Using the A/B switch, you can now change "on-the-fly" between the two outputs. The third output is USB. Using a USB cable (included), you can plug directly into your computer and use guitar applications such as Native Instruments GuitarRig™ 4LE download to play your guitar through a variety of simulated amplifiers and effects and listen through your computer speakers or headphones. GuitarRig also features a recorder, a metronome, a tuner and more."

---

I'm assuming this means the Epiphone is strictly an instrument with USB output and not an audio interface like the DigiTech RP series pedals are.

You should be able to insert a VST effect into the chain; any real-time monitoring should be handled by the audio interface...

But then again, if you're using the RP pedal, there's really no point. Just connect the guitar's 1/4" out to the RP and let the RP do the magic.

Subject:RE: AMS9 record monitoring doesn't work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/10/2012 2:19:09 PM

If the ASIO device does not have an output, then you can't use it with ACID at all. An output on an audio device is required for ACID.

Peter