7" Field Monitor Search is over.

Jerry K wrote on 5/21/2012, 7:24 AM
7" field monitor search is over:

Long time Searching and researching the internet for a 7" LCD/LED field monitor and the search is finally over. The monitor I was searching for had to be light weight, have good brightness, contrast, Clarity, sharpness and have good color reproduction, good viewing angles and HDMI input.

Last week I found the monitor that fits my criteria. I was willing to spend upto $600 dollars but the monitor I found was under $200.00 dollars and I was not disappointed. This monitor far exceeds my expectation.

The monitor I purchased was a lilliput model #5d-iih I paid just under $200 with delivery from Amazon but today's price was just over $200. still a great buy. Lilliput makes dozens of different field monitors but only 4 models come with 1024x600 HD LCD panels. Depending on which of the 4 models you choose you could spend as much as $350 dollars or more. The unit I purchased is the lowest price one and here are some of the features I gave up on this lower price unit that are available on the higher price monitors. 
HDMI out, Peaking Focus Filter, False color Filter, Zebra Exposure, Brightness Histogram. If you have a need for any of these features then you will need to move up to a different model. By the way all 4 of Lilliput HD models have the same 1024x600 LCD/LED panel so you are not sacrificing picture quality on the lower model. Keep this in mind when search the internet that as of this writing Lilliput's HD field monitor model numbers start with 5D-iixxx. If the model number does not start with 5D-ii it will most likely have a 800x480 LCD panel.

Like I said earlier this field monitor exceeds my expectation. The clarity, contrast, brightness, colors are very good if not better then any CRT monitor I have ever used. This field monitor has no artifacts when panning like some monitors. No blooming. No burn out on high brightness. What you see is what you get. The color reproduction is very good. Focusing my Sony HDR-AX2000 with this monitor makes it very easy. If you are in the market for a field monitor this might be the one for you. Here are the specifications taken from the website I purchased my Lilliput field monitor from:

* Panel Size: 7" TFT LCD (16:9) LED backlight
* Resolution: 1024×600 Native, up to 1920×1080 
* Brightness: 250cd/m2 
* Contrast: 800:1 
* Viewing Angle: 160°/ 150°(H/V) 
* Input Voltage: DC 6-24V 
* Input Signal: HDMI 
* Output Signal: NO 
* Battery Plate: F970, QM91D 
* Current: 800mA 
* Power Consumption: 10W 
* Size (LWD): 196.5×145×31mm 
* 196.5×145×41mm (with sun shade closed) 
* 196.5×145×151.3mm (with sunshade open) 
* Weight: 480g = 1.06 pounds
Package With:
* 1x 5DII-H Monitor WITHOUT HDMI OUT 
* 1x Flexible Folding Sun Shade Cover 
* 1x Battery Plate (F970) 
* 1x Battery Plate (QM91D) 
* 1x AC to DC Adapter 
* 1x HDMI Cable mini to regular
* 1x Shoe Mount (for camera only) 
* 1x Manual 

Jerry K

Comments

paul_w wrote on 5/21/2012, 7:48 AM
Good to know.
I guess the good value price is because of the lack of extra pro features like peaking, zebra, histogram, guide markers etc. But... if your camera already outputs this data in its external video feed then there is really no need for the monitor to do it also.
So if the camera already outputs these, as some do, then i'd say this would be a great investment.
Otherwise, like for example with a 5D, you would not be able to focus or expose correctly with it. Still nice as a viewing monitor though.

Edit: just checking amazon UK here and for an extra £13 you can have the HDMI loop thru model. 5Dii- H O, to me, that would be a better option but i guess it depends on your own needs.

Paul.

dxdy wrote on 5/21/2012, 9:43 AM
And it looks like it uses the same batteries as the Z96 lights.
dalemccl wrote on 5/21/2012, 12:47 PM
Does it fill the screen without borders with a 1920x1080i feed from the HDMI of the camcorder, without distorting the aspect ratio?

Also, I got the impression from reading about the Lilliput models with 5D in the model number that they were intended for use with Canon 5D DSLR's. Obviously it is working with your Sony HDR-AX2000 so apparently they work with camcorders as well.
redpaw wrote on 5/21/2012, 2:17 PM
i actually got their 665 monitor as i wanted composit and component inputs as well, to use it with my ex1.
but got a problem with hdmi... it doesnt show the whole image, just weirdly squeezed part of the image.. something like 80%.
overscanning / underscanning, changing between 16:9 and full screen doesnt make any difference.
back and forth with support now, but it looks like it will be going back.
apart from that monitor is pretty descent - especially for the money, and YPbPr input from ex1 looks really really good.
Jerry K wrote on 5/21/2012, 3:29 PM
1920x1080i from my Sony camcorder fills the screen with out any distortion or letter boxing. The monitor has a 16x9 setting and a camera setting for dslr so it's good for both. The other nice feature is it has an over scan on or off. In the off mode you see 100% of the picture. In the on mode you lose 5% of the picture all around just like you would with most TVs.

Jerry K
Arthur.S wrote on 5/21/2012, 4:06 PM
I've been looking for something like that to go with my XH-A1. Unfortunately this cam doesn't have HDMI out. It comes with a component outcable to 3 RCA jacks. Would that work with this monitor, or does it need the 5 bnc type?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lilliput-665GL-70NP-Monitor-Battery-Koolertron/dp/B0061H0ZO2/ref=pd_cp_computers_0
Jerry K wrote on 5/21/2012, 4:20 PM
Hi Arthur,

Yes that monitor should be good with your camcorder just order RCA to BNC adapters here's the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Q-See-QSRCBN6-Pack-RCA-BNC-Connectors/dp/B000G5S4JI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337634932&sr=8-1

Jerry K
redpaw wrote on 5/21/2012, 5:09 PM
Arthur - yeap, what Jerry said. just need an adapter phono to bnc.
that's how i use that exact monitor with my ex1 :)


what's good about it is that you can get (an optional - ~$20 extra) adapter to power it from v-lock batteries
farss wrote on 5/21/2012, 5:41 PM
From my experience Peaking is useless for critical focusing, even the expanded focus in the EX1 even with a loupe to magnify the screen is not all that good.

The best small monitor I've found is the TV Logic unit. Somewhat more expensive but clearly designed by cameramen for cameramen. Once programed access to what functions you need is a single button push and you can push the buttons without bumping the camera and ruining the shot.
It also works extremely well with the 5D and it will convert the signal from the HDMI input to the HD SDI output. Just that function alone is worth about half the asking price.

I have tried cheaper monitors, fine for framing but for anything else such as focus forget it. For focussing you need pannable pixel to pixel.

Bob.
Laurence wrote on 5/21/2012, 5:56 PM
For focusing a DSLR I would want a true 1920x1080 monitor instead of this 800x600. Not so much for focus precision, but I would want to see what kind of aliasing I was going to end up with. I often cheat the focus a little to soften the moiré and if your monitor is dropping pixels, you have no idea of what the end result is going to be moiré and aliasing wise.
MUTTLEY wrote on 5/21/2012, 6:08 PM

lmao@Bob "Somewhat more expensive" I'm not sure what the limit on "somewhat" is officially but $1100 or so to me would fall under "A LOT more " Been following this thread as I had ditched my Marshal that I used with the 7D and looking for something that will be full screen with my F3 without breaking the bank (getting the F3 already did that).

Just cracked me up, ya got my hopes up there for a minute!

- Ray
Underground Planet
farss wrote on 5/21/2012, 6:11 PM
Agree, a Full HD monitor is desirable however not always practical.
The TV Logic's pixel to pixel with panning would let you find any aliasing issue no problem.

Bob.
farss wrote on 5/21/2012, 6:33 PM
"I'm not sure what the limit on "somewhat" is"

For me 10 times.
I soon enough forget what something costs, I'm forever stuck with how well it works.

If I was to spring for n F3 and I've been seriously tempted as I can rent it out I'd also get the Gemini but although the monitor in that recorder is very good and bright I don't know off the top of my head if it does everything the TV Logic does.

Bob.
Arthur.S wrote on 5/22/2012, 1:59 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Will be ordering soon. :-)
paul_w wrote on 5/22/2012, 2:37 PM
@Bob, i'd be lost without Peaking!
I use it all the time and it nails the focus without a full HD res monitor.
I think one of the biggest issues with peaking is the quality of selectivity depending on the unit. Some monitors like the dreaded Marshall 7" are hopeless at peaking because there is no adjustment for Q or selectivity of the peaking display. Its way too wide, never tight enough to get an accurate fix on the subject. However, then there is the Cineroid EVF... as bad as its plasticy and has awful mini HDMI connectors that break, its peaking is excellent with 5 levels of selective adjustment. To me, its spot on for focusing. So i think it really depends on the monitor/EVF.
Now these Lilliput monitors (the higher price range ones) have peaking too, i just wonder how selective it is.

Paul.
Jerry K wrote on 5/22/2012, 3:12 PM
Here's a YouTube video on Lilliput peaking.



Jerry K

paul_w wrote on 5/22/2012, 3:38 PM
thanks for posting the vid. But if that video is representative of the peaking on this monitor, i'd say its a bad advert. Its exactly what i was saying, its too wide. The front object is red peaking as much as the back object. Although its difficult to tell by this video what the depth of field is from the camera/lens setup. Obviously if the DOF is deep, then there is not much to focus anyway, and peaking wont help either.
Probably needs a better executed demo video - with a more shallow DOF.

Paul.
farss wrote on 5/22/2012, 4:32 PM
Frim my experience and from what I understand about how peaking works I can see no way it will ever be as reliable as a large full HD monitor with your eyes up close. I'm only going by my experience using peaking in the EX1.
The problem with peaking is about the same as autofocus, it "looks" for the part of the image with the highest MTF. High contrast sharp edges are what causes the peaking indication. Classic example of this is underlit faces against a white backdrop. The peaking indication shows the outline of the head in focus and over quite a range of focus adjustment. That is quite useless when I'm trying to get the face in focus. The problem is that skin has little in the way of high contrast detail. It seems our eyes are quite good at telling how well skin is in focus but digital electronics just cannot match how critical our eyes are.

However...

In part at least I now strongly suspect my grief has been caused by the too clever detail processing in the EX1. I have noticed many times how I could have a face perfectly in focus, I mean razor sharp details leaping out of the monitor in the subject's skin and yet as soon as they move, poof, they're gone. Visually quite unsettling. Turning Detail Off seems to cure this. Nothing ever gets quite so dramatically sharp but on the plus side it doesn't suddenly drop off either. I suspect the issue is bought about by the tiny amount of motion blur from the 1/50 shutter speed causing the Detail logic no longer finding anything to add detail to.

Thinking about this just now I wonder if this might explain why quite a few here seem to favour faster shutter speeds?
Maybe, instead of using faster shutter speeds with the always present risk of inducing judder they should instead wind back or turn off Detail in their camera.

Bob.
paul_w wrote on 5/22/2012, 5:11 PM
Sounds feasible, my guess would be that the false sharpening (Detail) is using DSP to analyse the image and create false edges depending on the existing frame detail. So yes, if that frame then moves, you get blur, the DSP stops working. Higher shutter speeds would help. But that's a counter move and could make movement look worse, like strobing. Basically breaking the rules.

Well as for the peaking thing, i love it - if the monitor is able to display it correctly as mentioned. Having a selectivity level control in the menu really helps. If set correctly, you really can nail a face shot, even in dark lighting. Trouble is, not all monitors/cameras can do this! most just have peaking ON/OFF and that's it. So at that point you are relying on the manufacture to 'get it right'. Don't know about the EX1, lack of experience here. I can say the Sony V1 and the FS100 seem to both get it right most of the time. The Cineroid certainly does.
I do agree that having your nose up close to a large full HD monitor is the best possible way to focus - but its impractical in most situations. Peaking in my opinion is the best 'compact' way to achieve it.

All good interesting stuff!
Paul.
farss wrote on 5/22/2012, 6:39 PM
"I do agree that having your nose up close to a large full HD monitor is the best possible way to focus - but its impractical in most situations."

For a lot of what I shoot it's a fight to avoid having the back of someone's head in front of my camera. I'm seriously considering upgrading from a baseball bat in my kit to a cattle prod on a long stick or a taser :)

Bob.
Jim H wrote on 5/22/2012, 7:23 PM
I just used my new Lilliput 7" monitor for the first time on location Sunday with my Nikon D7000. Once I set my desired aperture set I used the monitor to do all my exposure settings and focus. Ran on batteries for 2 hours at least with a break in between when I had access to a plug. Seemed to work just as expected and the clients were impressed with how "cool" it looked. It was also handy to be able to swivel it around to the talent could see the shot they were dealing with. I think the stills I posted HERE show at least I got the focus and exposure close enough for my standards. ;)
Jerry K wrote on 5/22/2012, 8:58 PM
Jim when you say the battery lasted two hours I assume you have a Lilliput field monitor SD model that uses an internal battery that is supplied with the unit. Is that correct?

Jerry K
Jim H wrote on 5/22/2012, 9:07 PM
I have the 5D-II/O/P - it's one of their newer ones with the external Sony compatible battery. It's a large capacity knock off with a built in charge meter. It didn't die after 2 hours so I'm guessing it's still got a lot left. I think Lilliput said it was a 6 hour battery though I'm not sure about that.

For another $50 I could have got the zebra, peaking and some other controls but I was able to make due without. Mine only has the false color which I'm not sure I even know how to use. I just shot a stop down to make sure I wasn't blowing out the whites. But the monitor really did give me pretty much what I saw.

http://www.amazon.com/Lilliput-PEAKING-Exposure-Filter-Monitor/dp/B007CGDJMQ
Jerry K wrote on 5/22/2012, 9:38 PM
Looks like a really nice unit. On my monitor 5D-iiH the picture quality with factory default settings look really good but I found that if I tweak the brightness up from 50 to 60 and the sharpness down from 50 to 15 and the contrast from 50 to 53 the picture is more to my liking. All the color setting are right on the money from the factory.

Jerry K