what's with the 'compatibility' mode?

ushere wrote on 5/9/2012, 9:00 PM
i understand the ability to use the modes, and thanks to a link how they work, what i'm unsure of is why they're needed?

in an attempt to make 11 as stable as possible i checked video card as tom suggested, and tried 'win7' compatibility - having written in another thread that it froze vegas on 'creating windows', this time i left it - it took almost 3 minutes for vegas to create the windows!!! i'm not sure whether this is a good sign or not, but it certainly isn't helpful when opening new instances ;-(

it would be great if scs could just explain what is going on and why we might need to use such workarounds.

btw. nvidia 550ti - 296.1

Comments

Geoff_Wood wrote on 5/9/2012, 10:56 PM
You don't need 'compatibility mode' for V11. V11 will only install on Win7, so what's the point in invoking a mode specially for legacy Windows ?!!

So if no improvement, for you, simply don't do the Mode Thing.

geoff
ushere wrote on 5/10/2012, 5:43 AM
hi geoff,

what prompted this question was this thread, and others along the same lines:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=811580&Replies=20

as for a mode specially for legacy Windows there is an option there for win 7!?

i'm desperate to get 11 stable and reliable enough to handle a couple of upcoming, important projects which have tight deadlines and i certainly DON'T have the time to deal with random media replacement, or any other problems.

i've just ordered cs6 - not that it isn't without some major problems either

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4393566#4393566

so either way i might end up losing what little hair i have left ;-(
ritsmer wrote on 5/10/2012, 6:14 AM
Geoff wrote: You don't need 'compatibility mode' for V11.

According to some users in the thread mentioned by ushere it seems that setting Win 7 compatibility mode also when running Win 7 (!!) helps some users.

Probably some not-quite-perfect thing in Windows....
JJKizak wrote on 5/10/2012, 6:17 AM
I believe some of the compatibility mode changes were to Vista, not Win7.
JJK
larry-peter wrote on 5/10/2012, 10:45 AM
In my case it seems that even with Win7 current on updates, if you didn't install Service Pack 1 as a whole, you don't have the option for Win 7 in compatibility mode. My only options for VP11/64 bit were for 3 versions of Vista and Server 2008. I decided to try the last Vista version just for grins. Worked on a project for hours with over thirty instances of OFX plugins, adjusting, adding new ones. It was great. The plugins have been the only problem I've had with crashes (actually it's always non-responding white screen).
This particular project was begun in VP11. So when I completed, I closed it and opened a project started in VP10. First color correction plug in I touch - freeze. If it works, great, and if any of this helps Sony find a permanent solution, even greater. I'm hoping we're not just adding another unknown into the equation.
rmack350 wrote on 5/10/2012, 10:56 AM
What I gather from hunting around the internet is that Windows will run programs with "software shims" in compatibility mode. This has the effect of restoring old quirks of Windows for just that program. Sometimes this has to be done because a program exploited a behavior of Windows that has since been fixed. Often, it's an undocumented behavior that allowed a programmer to take a shortcut.

The problem you can run into is that Compatibility mode might restore something to Vegas but take the fix away from a plugin, causing *that* to crash.

Compatibility mode isn't a long term fix for Vegas, and it seems to only fix one thing.

Rob
TheRhino wrote on 5/10/2012, 1:00 PM
My main editing rig can boot from my choice of (3) SSDs. I did this to test-out V11 because it was so buggy... Right now one install has Windows 7 (64) SP1, Office 2011 & CS5.5 plus other software & utilities I use regularly. Amazingly it is the most stable. HD video with FX are smooth & silky to work with during editing & preview.

Another boot SSD just has 9.0e and latest V11. It seems to pause when I want to preview video & slows-down on some FX.

Another boot SSD has 8.0c, 9.0e, 10.0e, and latest V11. It too is not quite as smooth as SSD #1, so I use SSD #1 for most of my editing.

I have been methodical about how I install software including following a strict order of which applications are installed first vs. last. I have no idea why SSD #1 is working better on the same system but I have made backup images that I will return to if something slows down. Right now even V11 is working great after the last update. Have done several smaller jobs & it has not rendered to black or replaced footage.

I have not needed to use compatiblity mode to achieve stability but my motherboard is WS class (P6T6), I have a beefy power supply (Corsair 950W), 24GB of RAM, and dual hardware RAID10s. I haven't changed the hardware in this system for (2) years so I am quite pleased. My next system will be an 8-core (Ivy Bridge?) Socket 2011 whenever they are released as non-workstation class chips...

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

Tom Pauncz wrote on 5/10/2012, 1:04 PM
@Rhino,

It would be really helpful if, in your profile, you filled in the system specs.

TIA,
Tom
TheRhino wrote on 5/10/2012, 1:06 PM
@Tom

I had the systems specs filled-in & up-to-date. Just looked and they disappeared... Hate to enter all info again. Wonder why specs are missing...

EDIT: System profile was still there - just had to click the checkbox again to allow permission to view profile. Not sure how it became unchecked...

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

Tom Pauncz wrote on 5/10/2012, 1:10 PM
Hmmm .. no idea.

Did you change your login-id for that page perhaps?
Tom
darbpw1 wrote on 5/10/2012, 3:28 PM
Geoff Wood: "V11 will only install on Win7, so what's the point in invoking a mode specially for legacy Windows ?!!"

Just FYI, I am running V11 on Vista 64 SP1 right now. Pretty solid, although Stabilizer doesn't work at all.
PeterDuke wrote on 5/13/2012, 4:26 AM
Has anybody done any tests to see whether compatibility mode affects Vegas performance (playing, rendering, etc.)? Any other negatives?

I saw one forum thread elsewhere, where a contributor said that his game slowed down considerably when it was run in compatibilty mode.
Laurence wrote on 5/13/2012, 11:29 AM
Compatibility mode fixes my crashing problem except that it gives me a protected memory error when I try to render. I see a bit of a slowdown in compatibility mode as well.
rmack350 wrote on 5/14/2012, 1:01 AM
Peter, I could say that I'm seeing an infinite increase in editing performance after setting vegas to compatibility mode. That's the speed difference between crashing and not crashing.

Haven't tried rendering, but as I see it it's the ofx dialog windows that are crashing. I could turn compatibility mode off before rendering if need be.

Rob
PeterDuke wrote on 5/14/2012, 1:55 AM
Just for the record, in case anybody is interested:

I tried running Vegas Pro 9c in Vista compatibility mode on a Windows 7 SP1 64 bit machine, and it seems to crash about as often.

:(
ReceptorDeceptor wrote on 5/15/2012, 8:28 AM
I've had minor improvements in overall stability of Vegas by running it in Windows 7 compatibility mode. It doesn't do miracles, but the improvement in stability is clearly there. I'm running VP11 64-bit / Win7 64-bit, with no GPU acceleration enabled.

The GPU acceleration is another likely culprit - If I remember correctly, when VP11 first came out, my graphics card (ATI Radeon HD 5450) had GPU assisted preview and rendering. But once enabled, the GPU acceleration also caused serious instability and made even lighter project files extremely unstable. After a couple of VP11 bug fixes (or should I say compatibility list reductions), the only option for GPU acceleration I now have in the Options menu is now "Off". I'd suggest anyone who's suffering from Vegas instabilities to turn all the GPU rendering options off. It might help.

On another note - rendering to Sony MXF crashes in the middle of rendering with the project I'm currently working on. Probably because the project has a lot of tracks & animated masks. I wish Sony would address these stability issues before pumping out new gimmicks and features in the next update.
rmack350 wrote on 5/15/2012, 1:57 PM
Broken record here...

Compatibility mode appears to deal with the OFX filter dialog windows crashing. I have two systems running Vegas. Only one crashes while adjusting OFX filters, and that's using the integrated graphics on the Intel i5 CPU.

Vegas appears to have several things crashing it. Compatibility mode only seems to deal with one type of crash. GPU modes, GFX drivers, etc are dealing with other problems. For those unlucky enough to be suffering from a raft of problems, compatibility mode won't solve them all, and might even exacerbate other issues.

Incidentally, I could set one OFX filter on one event and then copy the effect to all other events. The timeline would play just fine. This particular crash only occurred while adjusting a filter. This is why I think you could turn compatibility mode Off for a render since you won't be opening any filter dialogs.

Rob
mark-woollard wrote on 5/15/2012, 6:27 PM
A few days ago, on my Windows 7 64-bit system, I chose Windows 7 compatibility mode. Vegas Pro 11 crashed less, but still crashed. This morning I switched to Vista compatibility mode and have been editing for 6 hours without a single crash. Lots of OFX plug-ins too.

What a relief.
Laurence wrote on 5/15/2012, 8:18 PM
Which Vista mode? The original, service pack 1 or service pack 2? Any trouble rendering? I can't render in any of the compatabilty modes I've tried. I get a "protected memory" error and then a crash when I try.
rmack350 wrote on 5/15/2012, 8:52 PM
Lawrence, Have you tried taking Vegas back out of compatibility mode for your final render? This is just a guess, but if it's only the OFX filter dialog box that's crashing, you don't need that while you render.

Rob
mark-woollard wrote on 5/15/2012, 9:54 PM
The original Vista. SP1 and 2 show as options, but I did not try them.

Rendering has not been a problem.
Steve Mann wrote on 5/15/2012, 10:51 PM
From Microsoft Technet:
"Over time features will be retired from the Windows operating system. In certain cases, there are successors that better satisfy the needs of developers and users. In other cases, the technology has simply reached the end of life and is deprecated."

Compatibility Mode enables Legacy Components that were removed from Windows in Vista and Win 7. If your PC is more reliable in the legacy mode then you have a driver or some process that still expects the legacy components.
Laurence wrote on 5/16/2012, 4:40 PM
Aha!, If I put Vegas 11 into both Vista Compatibility mode and check the "Run program as an administrator" it will render in compatibility mode! At least it is right now. It also just made it through a complete render, the first time I have been able to do this in the 683 release! I'm not saying it's fixed yet, but this is progress!
Steve Mann wrote on 5/16/2012, 4:52 PM
It wouldn't hurt to let tech support know.

BTW - are you running windows Aero?