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Subject:pitch shift
Posted by: amanda
Date:11/1/2001 10:33:09 PM
I got your reply message to use pitch shift function. All I could find in the Help menu was Pitch Bend. So I selected that and then I selected "octave down" and checked the box for preserve duration. There's some strange graph picture with "Semitones" at +13 and -13 with a line that can be moved. I ignored that and applied to my song. It started off alright and gradually got slower and lower as it went. What am I doing wrong? Again I apologize for my novice way of asking questions. But could someone help me please? The Help function doesn't help much so that's why I'm wasting all of your time with my embarrasingly silly questions. Thank you in advance. |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/1/2001 10:38:52 PM
There are no silly questions! :) Let me (semi-)reiterate from my other post: You cannot pitch shift the vocals without affecting the rest of the file with Sound Forge (or just about any other software for that matter) because of the way the music is mixed down together as one stereo waveform. It'd be a different story, of course, if you had all the tracks separate from each other. If you had the vocal track isolated, then you'd be cooking with gas. Did you see my post on crossfading, BTW? Did you have any success with it any? HTH, Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/2/2001 10:07:19 AM
Yes, I did use the crossfade and it worked. Not perfectly, like when DJ's mix music, but it did eliminate a few seconds of "dead time" like what was happening with a regular cassette recorder. So when you say changing the pitch will affect the whole file, I assume it means the pitch of the music will go down as well? Can you tell me how to do that? It may be alright. See, some of my music I got is imports from the '80s that cannot be purchased anywhere, so I obtained them from other aerobics instructors. They were recorded many years ago with the old fashioned pitch change with a Marantz tape player. Consequently the vocals sometimes sound like Mickey Mouse. I was just trying to get the pitch back down to the original sound while retaining the now speeded up version. So, the music is also pitched up already. I would like to at least hear it at the same speed I obtained it at and lower the pitch. Is that possible? Thanks |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: vanblah
Date:11/2/2001 10:42:55 AM
Are you using Sound Forge XP or the full version? There should be a pitch shift function in the full version. With pitch bend you start at one pitch and end at another; shifting applies to the whole length. There is also an option to retain the original tempo. Unfortunately, I am at work and I don't have Sound Forge installed on this machine or I would give you more detailed instructions. |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/2/2001 12:47:45 PM
I have the XP version. As far as I can see there is no Pitch Shift. I only see Pitch Bend under "Effects." I checked the box with "Preserve Original Duration." It doesn't seem to work. I don't see where there would be an option of starting with one pitch and ending with another. I just selected the whole song and assumed it would apply evenly. |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/2/2001 11:19:48 PM
In SF5.0 non XP this is located under the Effects Menu. I don't believe XP has this menu. If it does the go to Effects>Pitch>Shift. This is exactly what you're looking for. Is Sound Forge XP the only software you own, because there's many other Sonic Foundry software that is also able to do this. You really need to get a version of Vegas or even Acid. Sound Forge XP is really as basic as you can get for a stereo audio editor. There is a cheating way to change pitch though if you feeling like playing around with it. 1. Goto File>Properties>Format Here you will see a box called "Sample Rate". The current Sample rate of your song will appear in this box. If you increase the number in that box, and hit apply, the pitch will speed up and play back higher. If you lower the number it will slow it down and play back at a lower pitch. Eccentially what you're doing is changing the play back speed, just how it was done in the old days with the cassette deck. I imagine this isn't what you want since you want the tempo to remain the same and the pitch to drop back to normal. |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/3/2001 9:47:21 AM
I tried the Properties Format change, but you're right. All it does is change the tempo along with the pitch, so that doesn't work. There is no Pitch Shift in my XP version...only the Pitch Bend. So does that mean Pitch Bend doesn't do the job? What is Pitch Bend? Also, you mention Vegas or Acid. What version should I get that won't be way over my head to use and are they like $500? If so, would I be better off just getting the full Sound Forge 5.0? |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: PatrickL
Date:11/3/2001 11:27:22 AM
I have SF XP. Try right clicking (the other mouse button) on the track and click properties. There should be two options " Shift Pitch" and "Start Offset". Try changing the shift pitch then go back to the main page and play. hope this helps |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/3/2001 2:00:07 PM
I'm sorry, I don't see what you're talking about. I right clicked, then chose Properties, then I got to choose from General, Summary, Format, Video, or Display. Under none of those categories did I see Shift Pitch or Start Offset. Under Format there was the Sample rate that doesn't work. Is there something I'm missing? |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/3/2001 2:36:20 PM
Amanda, this might work for you. I'm not sure this will work, but maybe it's worth a try for you. I don't own XP like I said, and I haven't verified that this works. But there's more than one way to microwave a cat as I always say. 1. Edit the pitch like I previously described (write down the original sample rate first), and change the sample rate properties until the song goes back to it's original pitch...(ie you previously said it was re-tempoed through a cassette method). So now it is playing back at the correct pitch, but slower tempo. 2. Now goto Process>Resample. Now set the Sample rate back to the original sample rate you wrote down, and resample the song. Now it should still be playing back at the correct pitch, and slower tempo, but now it's back at it's correct sample rate. 3. Goto Process>Time Stretch and compress the song like I also previously described to you until the tempo is back to the correct faster tempo, and the pitch will remain the same. Let me know if this works, like I said I haven't tried it out, but I do know Sound Forge pretty well and I think this should work. Also, goto the Products page and read through each softwares features. Acid LE or ACID Music, was selling for $50 the last time I saw it in Best buy and Guitar center. These should do everything you need, it has most of the major functions of Acid Pro, but you can't use plugins and does not send out midi timecode, which you don't need anyways. Vegas LE will also do everything you're asking here, and I think that was selling for $60 the last time I saw it at Best buy. Also in the products section, they give the prices of each software, just use those as a guide, because you can get them cheaper at Best Buy. Hell Vegas Video was selling at Best Buy for $130 someone told me and I think I saw Acid Pro for $175. Tchau for now, Brian Franz |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: PatrickL
Date:11/3/2001 2:38:43 PM
oops! I was in ACID. DOH! |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/3/2001 6:41:48 PM
Rednroll, you are AWESOME! Thank you so much! It worked! I did it on 2 songs already. I just have a few questions (will I ever leave you alone? :)). It seems that on every song I have the Sample rate is always 44,100. Then I just do a trial and error to find the appropriate pitch. One song it was 38,000, the other was 40,000. Is that what I'm supposed to do? Just guess? Second, does Sound Forge have any limits at changing pitch (the new way you showed me) or Time Stretching before music gets distorted? Some songs I need to increase 30 bpm. Will that be okay, or will I need to do something else "tricky" like you showed me? Third, now that I can do all this (and I'm just an aerobics instructor) do I need the other softwares you suggested or can I get by with XP? Thanks again. You really know this software! |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: PatrickL
Date:11/3/2001 10:08:57 PM
I was checking out something else and found this. Try it! Open the ExpressFX Time Stretch dialog. Choose a preset from the Name drop-down list, or adjust the controls as desired: a. Choose a Mode from the drop-down list. Time Stretch provides different modes that are designed to maintain the highest quality for specific types of material. A mode that works great for drums will not work as well for string pads, for example. b. Drag the Final length slider to change the length of the selection. You should be able to achieve excellent results for ratios between 75% and 115%. Beyond this range, you will start to hear artifacts such as echoes, flanging, or drop-outs. Also, running the process a number of times using small increments (such as 105%) will create different effects than processing all at once with a large time change |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/4/2001 12:21:40 PM
Not to sound stupid, but I think that is what I already did? I never messed with the Preset: I left it at Untitled. I also left the Mode at Music - is that what I want since it is regular music with vocals? There are drums in all the songs, but also other instruments, so I assumed Music would cover me. Then I picked bpm under Format, then I input Initial bpm and what I wanted Final bpm to be. Then I pushed okay. If I change bpm from 130 to 160, that is a 23% increase. Are you saying I should do it twice, say increase it by 15% (bringing it to 149.5 bpm), then do it again and increase by 7% (to bring it to 160?) Would that maintain better quality than just increasing by 23% right off the bat? Thanks. |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/5/2001 10:09:31 PM
Amanda, If the method I described worked for you and this is not too much of a pain in the butt for you, then you don't need the other software. BTW. Sample rate has nothing to do with the tempo of the song. So there really is no correlation between BPM and Sample rate. Sample rate is a property of the actual digital audio. As an example all audio on a CD will have a sample rate of 44,100 Hz. So your CD player has a clock and it plays back the audio at 44,100 Hz. If the clock of your CD player was not set to 44,100 then your CD's would play back faster or slower than they're suppose to. This is escentially what you are doing in sound forge when you change the sample rate under the properties. You're telling sound forge to set it's clock so that it runs fast or runs slow....either case you change back the playback speed. Some CD players actually have a pitch control on it....this is how this feature is accomplished by changing the playback speed of the clock of the CD player, you're not actually changing the audio on the CD. So with the trick I taught you, you're actually fooling the software to get your desired results. |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: vanblah
Date:11/6/2001 11:06:55 AM
There is, however, an indirect relationship between sample rate and tempo: sample length x bps = sample rate To calculate sample length: tempo(bpm) / 60 = beats per SECOND sample rate / beats per SECOND = Sample Length so: Say you have a recording with tempo of 120bpm at 44100 sample rate and you want to speed it up to 140bpm using sample rate conversion. 120/60 = 2 (bps) 44100 / 2 = 22050 140 / 60 = 2.33 22050 x 2.33 = 51376.5 So the new sample rate should be 51376.5Khz to get a tempo of 140bpm. This is an approximation. If you MUST match 140bpm as close as possible, then use larger numbers: 22050 x 140 = 3087000 3087000 / 60 = 51450 Doug |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/6/2001 1:55:12 PM
That actully makes sense, because I took a song at 160 bpm and fiddled with the sample rate to guess at the correct pitch. I ended up changing it (through trial and error) to 37,000. Then I noticed the bpm had changed to about 130. So doing your math, it makes sense. I've been using that tap tempo and it's pretty good. Also, if I want to change this now slowed-down song from 130 back up to 160, am I alright doing the direct change or am I better off going in 3 steps, say to 140, then 150 then 160. Does it matter with distortion? Somebody else said there was a max at about 10%. Thanks |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: vanblah
Date:11/6/2001 2:27:43 PM
My philosophy on such things is, if it sounds all right to you then go for it. You're not releasing a CD ... or are you? |
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Subject:RE: pitch shift
Reply by: amanda
Date:11/6/2001 7:32:34 PM
No, of course not. But I have to blast it in a huge gym. I have 120 people in my class and the quality of the music means a lot to me. Some songs sound echoey, but that could be because the original was from a cassette and not perfect. Is there any way to reduce echo sounds? |