Subject:Stunning problem with Save As!

Posted by: Doug_Marshall

Date:1/31/2012 10:14:23 AM

I'm doing a huge project preparing sound samples requiring Sustain and Release loops and MIDI unity notes in Sound Forge 10.0c. I have encountered a problem where data seems to be consistently lost with this sequence of events:

1. Finished all the processing steps (EQ, noise reduction, looping, etc.) and saved the file.
2. I also do a Save As to put the file on another drive with a new name.
3. Upon clicking Save As, the Sustain and Release Loops disappear from view.
4. I looked at View/Metadata/Sampler Loops and the values I set had reverted to defaults, specifically: Sample Type=None, MIDI unity note=C5.

I'm at the start of a huge project processing more than 3,000 MIDI samples. This really appears to be a WTF moment. Has anyone else experienced behavior like this?

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: MarkWWW

Date:1/31/2012 11:10:03 AM

Do you have the "Save metadata with file" box ticked when you do your "Save as"?

Mark

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: Doug_Marshall

Date:1/31/2012 7:18:19 PM

Thank you, Mark. Now that's a good observation. Save Metadata was not checked. But I've been processing these things for a week successfully and never noticed the check box. Is it possible, short of my grazing it with the mouse, that some action would change that setting? And why would the file save with everything intact using "Save" vs. "Save As," I wonder? In any event this does seem to resolve the issue.

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: MarkWWW

Date:2/1/2012 4:32:44 AM

> And why would the file save with everything intact using "Save" vs. "Save As," I wonder?

Sound Forge treats "Save" and "Save As..." slightly differently, which accounts for the behaviour you have been finding.

When you "Save" a file (after having worked on it, perhaps) it is saved using the same properties (file type, sample rate, etc) as the existing version and the program then lets you carry on with editing the version of the file that is currently in memory. (So your loop, MIDI note, information, etc, appears to be intact in SF, although it may not have been actually saved to the file, if the "Save metadata with file" box is not ticked.)

When you "Save As..." a file you have the opportunity to save the data to a completely different format with different properties (lossy compression, different sample rates, different bit-depths, etc) any of which may adversely affect the sound quality. Because of this SF has a preference (which I suspect is ticked on your setup) called "Automatically reopen file after Save As" which causes the newly "Save As.."-ed file to be immediately re-loaded into memory so that you can audition it in its new form and check that the quality loss is not too great for your purposes.

But this means, of course, that if you were not saving the metadata (because the "Save metadata with file" box was not ticked) then the re-loaded version would be missing the loop, MIDI note, etc, information, leading to the unwanted situation you found yourself experiencing.

You might find that it would suit your workflow better to untick the "Automatically reopen file after Save As" box under General Preferences (and probably also its partner the "Prompt to open new file after Save As" box).

Mark

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: Doug_Marshall

Date:2/1/2012 10:06:46 AM

Thank you for the helpful tips. I experienced my original problem again this morning, (metadata disappearing after Save As)...after a Sound Forge crash. I think that was the key to my original problem, because the "Save metadata with file" check box had unchecked itself after the crash.

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:2/1/2012 11:16:43 AM

I've had that box uncheck itself on me numerous times. It's just an automatic habit with me now to *always* look at it and make sure it's checked every time i do a save or save as.

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: Doug_Marshall

Date:2/2/2012 4:11:41 PM

Yes, more good advice, learned the hard way! It seems illogical that a setting like that dang check box should ever *default* to saving less than all the data in a file, doesn't it? Yet, that is precisely what we have here. When Sound Forge loses its mind it decides you should lose yours as well!

Subject:RE: Stunning problem with Save As!

Reply by: Doug_Marshall

Date:2/4/2012 9:23:27 PM

OK, am I being unreasonable here? Or am I losing it or something: I'm working on a bunch of files in which I would like to set unity notes. I'm not setting a sample loop however, as I'm having another application do that, so why bother. It looks fine and the save Metadata check box is checked...but...when I save the file the unity note value changes to its default of C5. We seriously can't set that value without defining a loop? What would be the harm? It doesn't seem to say anywhere that you have to set both.