Comments

larry-peter wrote on 11/3/2011, 11:00 AM
Bob, I don't have direct experience with the SB cpus, but I have based all my Vegas system builds off Videoguys DIY recommendations with great success. They strongly recommend AGAINST SB as a pro system build and they have the detailed reasons behind it on their blog. Problems with PCIe bus speeds and conflicts with integrated graphics being the major ones. They do recommend for non-SB hex-cores and have a build recommendation for them.

Larry
larry-peter wrote on 11/3/2011, 11:12 AM
http://videoguys.com/Guide/E/Videoguys+DIY8+Sneak+Peek+Work+in+Progess+Coming+this+Fall/0x094b1737e0a06c495e5178a167fbdbd7.aspx

Link to their current recommendations. Their "hot rod" system uses the i7/980 with the Asus P6X58E-PRO MB.
photoscubaman wrote on 11/3/2011, 11:14 AM
My i780x just rendered in vegas 10 (see threads) a 2hrs 52 min
multiple camera project in 1hrs 40 mins.

i7980x is a fantastic processor, mines clocked at 4ghz on 6 cores 12 rendering threads

highly recomended
reberclark wrote on 11/3/2011, 11:50 AM
"i7980x is a fantastic processor, mines clocked at 4ghz on 6 cores 12 rendering threads"

Same here. Have had no probs. I'm using 10e 64bit.
Hulk wrote on 11/3/2011, 11:55 AM
All depends on what you want to spend. There is no doubt that the 980x is the fastest CPU currently available for Vegas. But the 2600k is 30% the price and 75% the of the 980x performance in Vegas. In other applications it's sometimes even faster. So you have to figure out if the 25% additional performance, which is pricey when you factor in a more expensive motherboard as well, is worth the 45% increase in cost.

A very good step down is the 970 which is half the price of the 980 and nearly as fast. You'll give up a tiny bit of performance and save $500.

As for the "Videoguys" telling people to stay away from SB for "PCI buss timing issues" I disagree. They don't post any links or facts. The graphics integrated into the SB CPU's are only used if you have an "H" or "Z" series motherboard and if you choose to use the onboard graphics. I'm using a 2500k overclocked to 4GHZ ($200 CPU) with a Z68 motherboard with zero issues.

The videoguys tend to recommend top of the line component series because they have less problems with them. Now that sounds straightforward right? Well yes and no. That's not because they're a better design, in my opinion,but more that the implementation is of higher quality across the brands that sell them. In other words you can buy cr@ppy Z68 motherboards which may give you problems but most of the 980x compatible boards are of higher quality because they are not aimed at consumers. BUT, if you buy a high quality Asus 7 layer PCB, solid caps motherboard for Z68 it will be as trouble free as any hex core compatible board that is built to similar specs. Again, my opinion based on years of experience and research/reading as a PC enthusiast.

So as always it ends up to price/performance.

If you need the fastest cost no object then go 980x.
970 will save you some money and lose a little performance.
2600k will save you even more money and lose a bit more performance.

So that is my take on 4 cores vs 6. Bottom line you can't go wrong with a 980, 970, 2600, or even 2500 Intel CPU.

Also keep in mind that Ivy Bridge is right around the corner... with Haswell soon to follow.


TheRhino wrote on 11/3/2011, 12:37 PM
In our main editing rig we have a 980X 6-core overclocked to 4.0ghz on air. The CPU cost $1000 but we have now had it 1.5 years and no new processors have significantly surpassed its capabilities. The other workstations are mildly overclocked 920 processors and all (3) are Asus P6T6 workstation class motherboards, Corsair 850W or higher power supplies, quality 1600 DDR3 memory, etc. We have been thrilled with the stability of these workstations compared to all previous systems we have owned. Very little down time.

All workstations are in indentical 6 year-old CM Stacker cases and one is empty awaiting a new Socket 2011 motherboard and 8-core processor. Socket 2011 is considered Intel's next high-end chipset to replace Socket 1366. With 2011 pins, I believe it will access memory and the PCIe 3.0 bus much faster than current chipsets. IMO this will eliminate some of the bottlenecks that do not allow Vegas to maximize CPU utilization during rendering.

That said, our 980x runs at nearly 100% during almost any render, even those involving mostly cuts & splices. The key is keeping the source video on one fast RAID and rendering it out to another fast RAID which is on a separate PCIe RAID controller. If you are trying to render HD video from/to single SATA drives or to/from a RAID on the same motherboard SATA connectors, you are using the same PCIe for both input & output which creates a bottleneck...

Therefore, unless you NEED a new rig ASAP, I recommend waiting a couple months and getting a Socket 2011 system. According to my understanding Socket 2011 will be the ONLY way to install an 8-core processor in the future, and you will definitely want one of those as soon as you see their performance in handling video. As a rule we time our upgrades to match the release of a new CPU design/socket as to extend the life of that socket as long as possible. Although more expensive up-front, the long life of a system based on cutting edge components eventually creates the best bang-for-the-buck for us. We are still using some 6 year-old workstations because they were able to handle an inexpensive RAM upgrade to handle Windows 7 & HD video. Had we gone cheaper those systems would now be obsolete....

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

Hulk wrote on 11/3/2011, 3:15 PM
I would be very, very surprised if PCIe bandwidth was causing any bottlenecks with Vegas. Vegas is and always has been CPU hungry. And now GPU hungry although we don't know to what extent based on the differences in GPU results seen on this forum.

We shall see though. When the new spec comes into play we'll see if Vegas performance with identical CPUs increases.

PCIe buss speeds are usually driven by the latest and greatest gaming video cards, and even then the speed increase is small. Everything else outside of gaming is generally covered by the current spec for many years past the introduction of the new spec. That's just the reality of history.
farss wrote on 11/3/2011, 4:32 PM
"I would be very, very surprised if PCIe bandwidth was causing any bottlenecks with Vegas"

I think that's a function of the kind of video you work with. I've sat in on edit sessions where there was 12 cores and rack mounted SAN boxes hooked up with fibrechannel and everything just screamed along. Sure running FCP not Vegas but the only real difference is Vegas doesn't nudge us into using a DI.

My problem is I've been "waiting a few months" for a few years. Sure IB looks attractive but by the time it is on the shelves there'll be something else to wait a few months for. What has made me rethink using the 980 is the actual cost of ownership.
There's an interesting graph that shows the energy required to render a video with Cinebench and the 980 uses the least joules of any CPU, so the real cost comes down a bit over the life of the system.
The other thing is the Gigabyte mobo has IDE so I can recycle any of the considerable number of optical drives I have around.
I'm still torn on this decision, I may just flip a coin. I had thought the choice was obvious, go with SB becuase it was the latest and greatest and the only real alternative was way more expensive and all you got for the money was bragging rights. It's not really all that clear cut at all.

Bob.
Daniel3D wrote on 11/3/2011, 5:27 PM
I use the 980X on an Asus Rampage 3 extreme board and bios auto overclock to 4ghz without any issues, 12gb ram. Now when you say Sandy Bridge, presume you mean the 4 core LGA1155 board with 1155 pins. The 6 core SB i7 will have 2011 pins, thus you won't be able to upgrade the system. That should be coming out soon, which I would presume would drop the price dramatically for he 990x...and the trusted Asus LGA 1366 boards.

It is tough to wait, and always depends on budget of course.

I wouldn't base your decision though on power consumption though, don't you want speed=time=(save)money?

Take care,
Dan
Hulk wrote on 11/3/2011, 8:27 PM
Bob,

First of all I was wrong about the price of the 970, it's only around $115 or so less than the 980x. You've probably gone through all this in your head but here's how I see it.

i2600
4 physical cores plus 4 logical cores
$300
Very fast and 4GHz is an easy overclock should you want to
Socket 1155 will support Ivy Bridge but probably not hex cores. But we don't know this yet.

980x
6 physical cores plus 6 logical cores
$999
Fastest there is right now and also will do a 4GHz overclock but thermal management will be a bit more of an issue. With the same CPU cooler the i2600k will run a little cooler at equal frequencies.
Socket 1366 is at end of life so there most likely won't be an upgrade path.

As for the old optical drives. I realize you may have some money invested but I wouldn't worry about that. A Blu-Ray burner is $100 these days and if you want a cleaner, leaner machine keep it all SATA. Forget all those old giant ribbons that are hard to deal with and reduce thermal performance in the case.

So if I were you I would either wait for Ivy Bridge and see what pans out by then or buy a 2600k, motherboard and RAM now. Even if you went nuts 300 for CPU, 200 for mobo, and 200 for memory that'd still only be $700 for a very fast system. Especially if Vegas' GPU acceleration pans out as promised make the CPU less important than it has been in the past.

But of course I'm not you! Good luck with your decision. These are all great chips so you can't really make a bad choice.

- Mark