Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Posted by: xberk

Date:11/2/2011 3:20:33 PM

What media format are you using?

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:11/2/2011 4:23:30 PM

Well, it's not unusable. You were able to render the project, so it was obviously usable.

Probably your i7 chip is faster than the GPU on your video card. Don't blame the software for that. Either be happy your CPU is so fast, or spend a lot of money to get a more powerful GPU.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/2/2011 4:27:45 PM

If you actually rendering a project, then it isn't really "unusable", now is it?

There are cases where you "4ghz hex-core" could be faster than you GPU. You are obviously overclocking and that usually means non-standard bus timings, perhaps your video card doesn't like this.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: TheRhino

Date:11/2/2011 4:38:14 PM

You might want to double-check all of your Vegas 11 settings to make sure that they are the same as your 10 settings. Our 980X also renders faster than some of these folks who are using fast video cards, so you may not see the jump in rendering speeds since the 980X is already speedy... When they say their video card doubled the speed of their CPU renders, they are using much slower CPUs...

Also, if you are truly a pro and this is your sole source of income, you undoubtedly have all of your drive images backed-up before you installed 11. Just go back to an older drive image and work in 10 until the 3rd or 4th Vegas 11 had been released.

As a rule, we do not install the new version of Vegas until about 3 months after the release, AND never before the holiday season when there are typically more deadlines... In fact, Sony did not even call this last release 11.0b, so that should give you a clue...

Also, with a new version of Vegas, we typically install it from the ground-up on one of our alternate boot hard drives. We go back to an image of the hard drive before Vegas 10 was installed... (Our systems all multi-boot so that we do not have any down time when we are testing-out a new software install... If the new software fails, we just boot to another hard drive with the OS or reload an old image... A $100 hard drive is cheaper than a couple hours down...)

For all of those who have not learned to make multiple drive images before installing a new software update, or who have not learned how to multi-boot, you can save a lot of down-time by planning ahead... No reason to blame Sony...

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/2/2011 4:44:15 PM

"the performance is terrible and the play rate is shocking.
the time line surrges so badly you cant hit your editing marks."

I too edit multicam from a mixture of cameras and indeed Vegas is problematic doing this. I'm still mainly using V9 and it isn't good, I can live with it but I would love it to be better. From what you're saying this has become worse in V11 and that comes as no surprise to me. More code getting in the way while it decides which way to jump using different decoders plus the overhead of shufffling data to and from the GPU, filling and dumping buffers, no wonder things get gnarly.

Adobe does seem to use a very different stratergy and it does seem to work better at handling having mixed media on the one timeline. One does have to wait almost forever to get started editing but once you get going the ride is much smoother. I think you've just got to choose which poison tastes the best for you or else transcode all your media to the one codec.

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/2/2011 5:00:35 PM

Um, maybe something to do with your video card and/or driver ?

IMHO 'professional' means not only doing something for money, but includes workflow and habits, contingencies, and attitudes.

If V10 runs better on your setup, use that until you have solved the problem of what is the bottleneck in your setup, or SCS have tweaked whatever is needed to remedy some particular shortcoming with that setup. That is professional.

Yes, it would be great if current Vegas had the facility to Save As previous versions VEG file format.

geoff

PS Underwater weddings ?!!!

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: risce1

Date:11/2/2011 5:24:08 PM

I used v11 for 5 minutes and found a bug... that does not mean it will effect everyone,but still how this stuff gets beta tested is a mystery,, i can't believe a lot of this stuff does not get caught. I think sont has a timetable and release it anyway. hate to say it but this is typical of every release since 5,, give them some time and 11will work pretty decent.. i hope,, vegas 8 works great here.....

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: JJKizak

Date:11/2/2011 5:32:21 PM

Well you have to cut some slack here and get your blood pressure back down and flip everything back to 10E. There are millions of parameters invloved in software creation involving a slug of equipment configurations. Just maybe there are some 3rd party applications raising hell with your systems. Cineform being one of them at this time. Jumping whole hog into a new editing software on three machines is not very smart. I never un-install the old software just in case. So now I have 10 and 11 on the same machine and will wait until some of the bugs are removed.
JJK

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: john_dennis

Date:11/2/2011 6:05:34 PM

"I didn't make a copy, I am a small buisness and still learning!"

Still learning is good.

Get yourself a copy of Ghost 15 or Acronis and start backing up your system image. I know it's a little late but everyone does a clean installation sooner or later. I wouldn't codify the trial of any program in a backup.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/2/2011 6:22:34 PM

have up loaded a video to youtube of the surging timeline

http://youtu.be/juPYJ-Y38Rc

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: johnmeyer

Date:11/2/2011 6:58:15 PM

Yup, that is definitely unusable!

I have never seen anything like that in Vegas, but I've certainly seen similar things at other times. I have a few ideas of things to try:

1. If you are overclocking, go back to stock speed. It is possible that some part of the system is not able to handle data at a faster than stock speed, and some buffer is getting filled up.

2. Dynamic RAM preview. What is this set to? (It is in Preferences --> Video tab). Having this set too low or too high has been known to cause issues. Note its current setting and then try both a lower and higher setting and see if it makes any difference. (I can't remember, but I think you have to quit and then restart Vegas for this to take effect).

3. Video card drivers. I'm no expert on video cards and GPUs, but one theme that has emerged over the past several years with other editing programs that use GPUs, and also seems to be true with Vegas 10 & 11 is that the video card driver can make a big difference as to whether the GPU works correctly or not. What driver version are you using?

4. Disk drive. I didn't look closely at your system specs to see if you have RAID or just have simple SATA drives, or something in between. I have definitely seen timeline performance that freezes completely for a few seconds at a time when using older external USB-connected drives. This is a different-looking thing, but it does make me wonder whether there isn't some bottleneck or other issue with one or more drives. One way to test this would be to copy a little of the project to another drive. A simple way to do this is to save your project under a different name. Next, eliminate most of the media before and after the section you showed in the YouTube video. Go to the project media tab and click on the lightning bolt to remove all unused media from this temporary project. Then, save this project again, but to a different drive, and before you click OK, make sure to click the "copy media with project" checkbox. This will make a copy of this reduced project on another drive. Finally, open this reduced project and see if it plays differently on this other drive.

5. Right-click on the preview window and un-check "Adjust Size and Quality for Optimal Playback." That was one of the first things I turned off when I first used Vegas 10. I found the variable speed playback to be very disconcerting. Once you have done this, try changing the preview quality from Best-Full to Preview-Auto.

And, just for good measure, here are some further ideas for optimizing timeline playback performance, although I'll have to admit that I think you have an underlying issue here that must be fixed before these additional recommendations can help:

Four rules for fast preview speed

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/2/2011 7:13:40 PM

Never seen that before but I don't have a GPU for Vegas 11 to use. Some questions though:

-- Does the music have anything to do with the video? I assume it's not coming from Vegas, right?
-- I can't see the actual video or framerate. Is the video actually playing fast then pausing? Or is it stalling then playing normally, then pausing, etc.

You say you have different media on different tracks. What happens when you start muting tracks? Does the problem remain for any single tracks?

Rob Mack

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/2/2011 7:25:25 PM

Two cents worth on JohnMeyer's good ideas.

For #2: The default for Dynamic RAM preview in Vegas11 64 is 200MB. Seems like a good place to start. You don't need to restart Vegas when you change this.

For #4: I've been assuming that your three computers have their own storage but if you're using a set of external drives and moving them from machine to machine that could be a common denominator. I've seen playback freeze when using bad 1394 drives or controllers.

For #5. Definitely turn off "Adjust Size and Quality for Optimal Playback." Especially with such varied media on the timeline.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: CorTed

Date:11/2/2011 7:36:04 PM

I have seen this happen to me when I get the source video from my NAS (Network attached storage), but never when using local SATA drives

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/2/2011 7:43:10 PM

All good ideas but they're all just as applicable in V10 and photoscubaman is having no issues with V10. If I read what he's saying correctly the problems even go away in V11 if he turns off GPU acceleration.

His complaint comes down to SCS saying V11 adds GPU acceleration which will improve timeline playback and it does not. From that he concludes that SCS is engaging in false advertising. Saying that he could just turn off GPU acceleration does miss the point here, that would be fine if SCS had said "may improve".

Unfortunately I don't have a qualifying GPU to test the same scenario as the OP is facing. It would be interesting to see if anyone who does could test photoscubaman's scenario to see if they can repo his experience. He could well have uncovered a scenario that has slipped past all the testing and SCS need to be alerted to this.

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/2/2011 7:48:03 PM

Your spell-checker seems broken too ;-) Maybe cut down on the coffee ;-)

I do feel your pain, but yours is not the same experience as many of us have had, so all the 'false advertising' stuff is a little over the top ....

geoff

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/2/2011 8:11:29 PM

Case closed then. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Rob

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/2/2011 8:28:53 PM

Case closed then. Move along. Nothing to see here.

I think not, have requested refund but i just want it working, very disapointing

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Hulk

Date:11/2/2011 8:34:02 PM

@John Cline,

Sandy Bridge doesn't really have an FSB, the memory controller is part of the CPU. No one is messing with buss speeds these days to overclock, just changing the multi on the CPU like the old days when they were always unlocked;) So it's very likely his PCI bus is at standard 100MHz.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/2/2011 8:42:29 PM

I've made a pretty concerted effort to reproduce your problem.
I built a project in V10 with mixed media intercut over various tracks, saved it and then opened in V11 build 425.

Sorry to say I was unable to reproduce your problem. I tried EX1 MXF, dodgy H.264 in a MOV cintainer, Quicktime files from Artbeats. I also tried various amounts of Preview RAM and various preview settings. Nothing would cause the playhead to do what it was doing in your YT video.

I don't doubt you have a problem but until a couple of us can repo it very hard to offer much help and impossible to send a bug report to SCS.

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/2/2011 9:10:53 PM

Bob...And you did something with multicam? Is that part of the equation?

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/2/2011 9:38:05 PM

"Bob...And you did something with multicam? Is that part of the equation? "

Now there is a good question, no.
I'm not at all familiar with Vegas's multicam feature, I do my multicam edits the old school way. I guess I could try but I do have other pressing matters.....

Still this is a good thought, how many would start a multicam project with a mixture of three different codecs, get a way through it and then migrate that to V11???

It would also be great if photoscubaman could just try thowing some media onto a virgin V11 timeline and see if he has any issues with that.

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/2/2011 10:24:56 PM

@Hulk,

He stated that he has a i7-980x machine (as do I) and an i7-960, neither of which is Sandy Bridge. His Alienware laptop is the only one of the three that has a Sandy Bridge processor.

I agree with John Meyer who stated that perhaps the OP should kick the 980x back to stock speeds and see what happens.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: gwailo

Date:11/2/2011 11:55:20 PM

If you have a project in 11 and you don't like 11 you can still go back to 10 if you have 10.

You can't open an 11.veg file in 10 but....

You can open both 11 and 10 at the same time

then copy your events in 11 into 10

ta da! Vegas 11 project rebuilt in vegas 10

If your project is massive - cut & paste in smaller portions until you reach the end.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: megabit

Date:11/3/2011 3:57:21 AM

I don't know about its influence on rendering speed, but playback rate of my 6-HD-camera multi-track is the highest when I set RAM preview to ZERO in VP11 (I'm using the Quadro 4000m GPU).

Just give it a try!

Piotr

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/3/2011 4:12:14 AM

All video and image files must be decompressed on-the-fly for Vegas to work with them. A single frame of 1920x1080 8-bit video takes 6,220,800 bytes. One second's worth of 1920x1080 at 29.97 fps means that Vegas has to decompress and process 186,437,376 bytes. Layer a few tracks and Vegas is CRANKING the bits, not to mention all the processing that Vegas is doing with filters and audio and keep it all in sync! There are very few things that can tax a computer like video editing. Reducing the RAM preview to zero at least give Vegas a fighting chance.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: megabit

Date:11/3/2011 4:28:25 AM

"Reducing the RAM preview to zero at least give Vegas a fighting chance. "

John, I didn't quite understand the meaning of the above...

Piotr

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/3/2011 4:47:33 AM

link as promised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvO2tjmznc4

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/3/2011 4:50:54 AM

Piotr,

If you set the preview RAM to zero, that frees up more RAM for Vegas to ingest and process larger amounts of data.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: megabit

Date:11/3/2011 5:11:28 AM

John,

Having 16GB in my machine, and never seeing Vegas use more that 3-4 (in total, with the OS) - I guess the advantage of having no RAM buffer comes from elsewhere: the whole stage of data flow - potentially creating a bottleneck - is eliminated.

Piotr

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/3/2011 6:10:39 AM

"link as promised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvO2tjmznc4"

That does look pretty bad.
What happens in V11 if you put some of the same footage into a new project, do you get the same issues?

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: DavidMcKnight

Date:11/3/2011 12:40:39 PM

There could be a problem opening V10 veg files in V11 and re-saving them.

We had a loooong crash-filled session last night / this morning, and the best workflow we found to combat this was to open the old project file (even if it was saved in V11), Ctrl-A and Copy everything, then open a new instance of V11, insert a new video track, and paste everything into the new instance. Save that veg file to a new name, and everything seemed to run much better.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: paul_offline

Date:11/3/2011 1:33:27 PM

Just watching your youtube video. I seen this a while back on my system using 10. It turned out to be audio drivers. My professional MOTU firewire unit which uses ASIO drivers turned out to be acting funny with Vegas. I use the motu for my music studio side of things. But accessing the motu in vegas caused stuttering on the time line, very similar to what you have there. I changed from using the motu to standard internal sound on the motherboard and it cleared the stuttering fine. Not saying this 'is' the problem, but may it help, maybe check out the audio side as you go. Any audio changes made in your setup recently?

good luck, looks like a nightmare.

Paul.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/3/2011 2:40:42 PM

"they just wiped their hands of me"

And I'm going to do the same. Sorry it didn't work out for you. I'm running essentially the same system as you and v11 works just fine for me.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/3/2011 3:46:02 PM

"Sony have now terminated my sony 11 and are issuing a refund"

So you asked them to and they did exactly that. The consequences should have been obvious. What's even more remarkable is you got back $139 and will have to expend 10x that getting yourself out of a mess you created.

On top of that you've shown no real interest in trying to diagnose the problem so SCS might have had a shot at fixing it, for your benefit and the benefit of those here trying to help you. No one here gets paid to help people with problems, our payback is when the problem is diagnosed and ultimately fixed. Personally I've put in an hour of my time trying to recreate your problem so the exact specifics of it could be reported to SCS. Are you going to give me my money back?

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:11/3/2011 4:13:29 PM

"then copy your events in 11 into 10
ta da! Vegas 11 project rebuilt in vegas 10"

gwailo, keep in mind that only copies event-level information. You won't get any track header settings or track effects or master/project settings effects. You'll still have to do all these things manually.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: risce1

Date:11/3/2011 5:06:06 PM

why not just do your work in vegas 10,, eventually 11 may be fixed
but the render times are not that important when it comes to finishing a project... imho
I mean , really the power the cpu now is so incredible unless you are having to pump out a daily.. or an hourly i don't see the importance of the gpu increase... but thats just me

have not read through all the posts so if you are doing daily deliveries nevermind..otherwise....
does not work as stated i get it... and yeah it should but don't beat your head against the wall... use what works

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: eightyeightkeys

Date:11/3/2011 5:51:07 PM

VP11 rocks over here. The complete and utter reverse is true for VP10 on my system.

I'm so pleased with the first release that I'm very reluctant to install the update, but, I have backed up my OS-Drive just in case.

my sys specs :
i7 3.6Ghz, 12GB Mushkin Redline RAM@1600Mhz, Windows 7 64bit, and another important component-a CUDA2 compliant NVidia GTX470-with the latest driver optimized for Vegas Pro

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/3/2011 7:01:56 PM

"I have now cut and pasted the same project back into vegas 11 and saved it."

You're not playing fair, the moment Sony refunded your money you were obligated to uninstall Vegas v11 but it seems that you didn't and are continuing to use v11. I am surprised that SCS would actually issue a refund in the first place, they have no way to make sure that you don't continue using it. You could have downloaded the trial and played with that to determine if it worked for you, but once you pay for it and get a valid serial number, that is it and there should be no refunds. I PAID for my copy of v11 and I'm using it, you came here to the forum, cross-posted your "warnings" in a number of threads and then demanded and got your money back and yet you continue to use it. Seems that you have scammed a free copy of Vegas v11. To use your own phrase, "TOTALLY SHOCKING!" I'm through with you.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: vkmast

Date:11/3/2011 7:26:40 PM

to paraphrase Donovan, some time in 1967...

"ah my-my...first there is a mountain (of posts) and then there is none"...

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/3/2011 7:28:27 PM

Your conclustions are wrong and getting personal is not called for.

I have been a loyal customer of Sony and there is nothing dishonest about my actions.

its regretful that you feel that way.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: vkmast

Date:11/3/2011 7:34:38 PM

your conclusion must be that we all can have our license terminated and our money back AND continue to use the software?

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/3/2011 7:59:24 PM

My conclusion is 100% correct. You scammed a free copy of Vegas v11. You proudly announced that you got SCS to give you a refund and a short while later said that v11 was working better. You were clearly using it after[/I] you got the refund. So, how is my conclusion wrong?

If you're not doing anything dishonest, then why did you just delete all your previous messages?

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: vkmast

Date:11/3/2011 8:13:25 PM

Maybe, just maybe he got a complimentary license for all his pain and for being such a loyal customer and was kind enough then to delete his less-than-positive posts...
Things like that happen, in the movies anyway :)

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:11/3/2011 8:31:22 PM

Or maybe, he didn't get a refund and is saving face by saying he did. That would make more sense in the real world (makes for bad movie fare though).

I knew something was amiss in the second post, which contained a half-dozen misspellings (including the word proffesional -- twice).

Fact: OP is still able to post on the forums, so his software is still registered.
Fact: The OP deleted most of his own posts, which means there is something he doesn't want us to know (like an undisclosed cause of his problem; i.e., settings).
Fact: This thread hasn't been deleted by an admin (yet).
Fact: Once again, the holidays are upon us, and the jingle-jangle of narcissism is in the air!

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/3/2011 9:10:57 PM

and a short while later said that v11 was working better

Okay, my curiosity is getting the better of me. Did he ever say why it was working better?

Rob

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/3/2011 9:21:19 PM

I knew something was amiss in the second post, which contained a half-dozen misspellings

I was chalking that up to either

a) the lights were off and he couldn't see the keyboard
b) he was typing on phone
c) he was drunk
d) he was so mad he couldn't think straight
d) all of the above

Good spelling isn't so important but bad spelling makes people think poorly of you, so it's best to avoid it if you can.

Rob

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Steve Mann

Date:11/3/2011 9:40:44 PM

Well, since he deleted all of his posts, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't looking for any assistance - just venting.

He did say that he had three licenses for Version 10, so he does still have access to the forums.

But, I was getting the impression that his rant was one of: "I bought the most expensive, state-of-the-art PC, so the problem HAS to be with Sony.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: John_Cline

Date:11/3/2011 9:42:34 PM

We'll never hear from him again.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Laurence

Date:11/3/2011 9:51:37 PM

I quite understand him. The point is when you are working and trying to do a number of projects on a deadline, and are running into a brick wall of a problem because of some error with the software, you get pretty frustrated. I know, I know, you shouldn't use a new version when you have deadlines to meet... the problem is that some of us are busy enough that we are always in that mode. At a certain point, you just sort of plunge in headlong. Anyway, when you are up for hours and can't go to bed and can't get whatever current project it is you are working on done because a product was released before it was ready, you can find yourself venting in a way that isn't entirely pleasant. I understand.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/3/2011 9:56:52 PM

" .... as the wise man breaks winds, and is gone !" Jethro Tull.

geoff

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/3/2011 10:00:11 PM

Though not very 'professional' to commit all your projects to a just-released new software version, (almost) irreversably.

If he had problems, I sympathise. But his demeanour made that sympathy evaporate.

geoff

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/3/2011 10:16:35 PM

I quite understand him.

Sure. There are times when you didn't even plunge in headlong but you still get burned. That happened to us with three Matrox Axio/ PPro CS2 systems. We had all sorts of assurances from the integrator, Adobe people came to visit, Matrox people came to visit, but in the end the systems weren't stable enough to work in the way our main editor, boss, and signer of checks was used to working. It would have been very nice to have SSD boot disks since we were constantly rebooting systems.

Adding hardware support complicates things, unfortunately.

Reading through a few of the OP's other posts it sounded like he had purchased the nvidia cards for PPro and Vegas was an afterthought, but maybe I was reading the post wrong. It sounded like he had another NLE to migrate to. And sometimes you really do need to stop complaining, pick up your marbles, and go find a new game.

It's a bad idea to crash into a new version of an NLE without having an exit strategy, but it's very tempting. I think maybe it'd help to decide just how you're going to test and adopt that new NLE before you ever install it, just to keep you from being too impetuous.

You certainly shouldn't be installing a new version of an NLE on all three of your edit systems at once.

Rob

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/4/2011 6:25:02 AM

OK I'm still here!

Ok some actual facts
1. I cannot spell to save me life. This is true I’m sorry. Some people are artists or musicians and other cannot hold a tune. Language is not my strong point. It doesn’t make me a bad person.

2. I was Venting, I am totally snowed under with work I don’t have enough hours in the day or days in the month. Currently I have 5 weddings to complete from this summer’s work. I have not had a holiday or anytime off since April, My office is at home so I work 7 days a week. Yesterday I was editing from 7.30am until after 10pm when I then started to run some diagnostics as my system was no longer rendering.

3. Scamming a free copy of Vegas? I own Vegas 7, 9, 10 and 11. Production assistant and Cinescore. All of which I paid for!

4. I have more than 10 years working as an independent film Maker; I have filmed all over Africa, Caribbean and Europe. I owned an Underwater film production company in Egypt where I employed up to 8 staff producing daily DVD’s of Divers and Snorkel trips. This involved me editing on occasions up to 3 DVD’s Daily and experience working with people who used Mac’s and PC’s.

5. I now own my own company in the UK filming producing Wedding videos. All my Weddings are shot with 4 HD cameras, 2 Cameramen and 2 fixed. All this is synchronised on the computer during editing, Service – speeches –First dance. I use radio microphones and H4 zoom recorders in addition. To have 6 sound sources in total. All this I am doing for very little money as I am still establishing the Company and building a reputation.

6. Vegas 11 does have many bugs; I tried to show you on a video. I don’t have time to try and fake a video to try and scam a free copy of Vegas. I don’t have time to finish everything I need to do. Money isn’t an issue here although I don’t have any it’s all about deadlines and time stress. I bought 11 as it was advertised as being quicker to render.

7. Vegas 11 is not quicker than 10 rendering on an editing rig that’s got a powerful CPU. Here is some render times on one of my wedding projects that’s 2hrs 52 long and has at least 25 video tracks and more for audio.

• Vegas 10 render time 1hr 45 mins
• Vegas 11 CPU only 1hr 53 mins
• Vegas 11 GPU 3hrs 47 mins
The time line stuttering seems only to effect Vegas 10 projects opened up in Vegas 11 and then saved. I have now cut and pasted the projects back into Vegas 11 and its plays smoothly.
The rendering times are still just as slow.
I wasn’t able to replicate the problem to the extent of the Video but the play back was definitely less some than a native Vegas 11 project.

There were some other problems that I found earlier, to do with interpolation. The settings that I normally render with won’t work in 11. Multiple tracks with different formats i.e. MXF 25p mt2 25p mixed with AVCHD 1080 produced issues. In Vegas 9 and 10 I set the track preferences to match the AVCHD footage and exported to Mpeg2 DVD Arch widescreen Pal with no problems.
In 11 you just get footage that the interlace is messed up with the jagged lines on the final footage. The solution to this I eventually figured out and you need to click on track properties Deinterlace method, interpolate fields this allows the rendered track to be usable.
This I passed on to Sony.

I deleted all my posts as because I did not want to be associated with a forum where people were making personal attacks on me, I wasn’t scamming or trying anything on. I was venting a little which I believe was justified. Vegas 11 is not running properly and doesn’t do what its advertised to do.
Please cut me some slack I’m just trying to work and I’ve lost 3 days of constructive editing over this which is worth far more than the discounted upgrade I paid for this product.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/4/2011 6:33:14 AM

I have a copy Adobe Master eddition, CS5.5 it includes premier pro.
I changed all my computers to Nvidia to enable me to use GPU acceleration.

I render in Vegas, do my menue transitions in Affter Effects and Produce my DVD's using Encore.

Theres even a bug in Vegas 10 that means I lose 4 mins of footage when I import the rendered file into Encore. I have to add 5mins of my company Logo so when i lose 4 mins its still ok.

some bugs i can live with but time line that was so jumpy and surging wasnt.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: vkmast

Date:11/4/2011 6:35:03 AM

Point 3. "...and 11 - - - All of which I paid for ..."

You said you got a refund. Did you or did you not?

Oh well, never mind. (Just like) Starting over (J. Lennon, 1980).

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: farss

Date:11/4/2011 7:08:53 AM

"Please cut me some slack I’m just trying to work and I’ve lost 3 days of constructive editing over this which is worth far more than the discounted upgrade I paid for this product."

I think you need to cut yourself some slack. You're putting yourself under too much stress and making bad decisions.

Bob.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/4/2011 8:23:05 AM

"I think you need to cut yourself some slack. You're putting yourself under too much stress and making bad decisions."

Your right.

please accept my apologise, I'm very stressed at the moment.
I hope you can tell by the tone of my post today I'm trying to reflect back on yesterday and correct things.

My company has come to that stage where it's too much work for one person to edit, but I'm not making any money after equipment costs and expenceses.
so its imposable to employe another person to help.

although I have built another editing rig to try and find someone.

but finding the time to train and edit is going to be hard,

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:11/4/2011 9:48:38 AM

Highly recommended reading: Might be the best $7 you ever spent:
http://www.amazon.com/Built-Last-Successful-Visionary-Essentials/dp/B001W6RRNY/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320417983&sr=1-1

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: atom12

Date:11/4/2011 10:21:40 AM

I'm going to add my .02 that for some reason doesn't get much support, but I'll add it in this thread too: There are bugs in Vegas, yes. Many have survived through several versions and revisions, and it is disappointing that we have to live with them. But when I see the "Vegas doesn't work" threads, I have to consider all the users that it obviously DOES work for. There are equipment configurations that seem to work fine. Others don't, even if they're the "latest and greatest" build. If we can't get together on a thread showing systems that ARE working, at least browse the forum and look at the specs of those who are having success. The only thing missing is the other software that Vegas is sharing these systems with.

If Sony would give detailed system specs on their testing computers it would be great, but I'll bet they aren't using them for email and web browsing, and I'll bet there are no Microsoft office products, downloaded codec packs and freeware on them. Granted, I know a lot of users are multitasking their systems out of necessity and budget constraints, but to expect a fairly sophisticated editing software to work universally with every hardware and software combination is unrealistic. None of the "other" systems we like to compare Vegas to does. I have been disappointed in Sony for a while for not tightening up and detailing their "minimum" system specs. And I think Vegas' price point attracts users that don't necessarily have dedicated workstations. Again, I think if those of us who have satisfactory performance can share our hardware AND software configurations, we may be able to steer more users into a productive situation.

Subject:The Dreaded Edit Queue

Reply by: DavidMcKnight

Date:11/4/2011 10:47:07 AM

Hey scubaman, hoping that your V11 experience is improving. Was going to PM you but doesn't look like your profile is set up for this.

We do our share of wedding videos and at one time was in a similar situation as you. We crawled out only by pouring on the gas and working through it. There are some alternatives you can explore such as outsourcing some of your edits. I would also suggest you read Chris P Jones' articles in EventDV magazine / website on editing backlog & time management.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat. I've been where you are and it's no fun.

BTW, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater w.r.t. this forum. It's THE single best resource you will find for Vegas Pro.

David

Subject:RE: The Dreaded Edit Queue

Reply by: Hulk

Date:11/4/2011 10:55:12 AM

I would pay $150 for a Vegas release that added no new features. Nothing. Just a years worth of Sony developers listening (reading) the complaints in this forum investigating, finding the problems, and then fixing Vegas if that is where the problem lies. Start with the fellas that have been here the longest and work your way down. Fix those old bugs that never seem to get fixed. Just make it solid. Call it Vegas 11.RockSolid or something. Okay give it to the people that already paid for 11 for $50 or something.

Just kidding... kind of

Subject:RE: The Dreaded Edit Queue

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/4/2011 10:58:07 AM

Hi David

Thank you for your coments, I have now amended the settings I was wary as some seem to have it in for me.

I have been a member of this forum for years but not regular.

Back log currently 5 weddings, 2 or 3 remidial edits for clients several blue ray upgrades and a music video.

I have no filming now until end of December so hoping to be clear by Christmas,

I had a HVR V1e fail and couldnt capture that cameras footage until it was fixed so built a backlog that i have been fighting since august.

I'm not using Vegas 11 anymore and have reverted back to 10

having to manually set up 50 track effects and settings having pasted it back into 10. and missing plugins!

its not been fun

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: JimboWHO

Date:11/4/2011 11:20:17 AM

While many of you really try to be helpful, others are usually just looking for payback when a user complains about Vegas. White blood cells have nothing on some of you guys.

Here's a long time customer and supporter of SCS who just plunked down some more money - disappointed and frustrated he comes here to vent with legitimate gripes and what does he get?

It is suggested more than once that he isn't professional along with commentary on his spelling. He is told that he is acting in a way that is "over the top" and someone else says that they're "going to wipe their hands of (him)".

With no evidence to support this he's also accused of "scamming a free copy of Vegas v11" and also accused of 'hiding something' simply because in frustration he deleted his own posts. It is also said that he's drunk.

I visit another competitor's board and I never see these types of things - it happens here frequently. The people responsible for the above quotes typically go into attack mode when their Vegas is criticized. Is this guy a 'troll' ? Where are the holes in his story?

It's really too bad that this happens over and over again.

JJM

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: ritsmer

Date:11/4/2011 11:28:02 AM

Probably a more suiting attitude than " Vegas 11 pro is un usable!" would have got him more suitable answers.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: MozartMan

Date:11/4/2011 11:33:41 AM

JimboWHO,

I absolutely agree with you. I have my own example.

After seen all these threads about Vegas 11 I decided to try trial version before buying it. I have latest build of Vegas 9. I load 4 minutes M2TS file shot with my Sony AVCHD cam to timeline and render just audio track to a AC3 file. It takes 30 seconds to do that with Vegas 9.

I do the same with Vegas 11 and it takes 13 freaking minutes to render audio track to a new AC3 file.
I guess I will hold off buying version 11.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: rmack350

Date:11/4/2011 11:36:45 AM

So many issues. I doubt you really have time to get sucked into this thread, let alone read a book about great businesses vs merely good businesses. I apologize if I was harsh. This happens a bit here when people who merely need to vent run headlong into a nest of compulsive problem solvers, which is mostly what this forum consists of.

On the spelling issue. Firefox includes a spell checker. It's working for me right now as I type. The thing with spelling and accents is that they rapidly convey prejudices, both good and bad. For instance, people in the US seem to give a lot of credit to a refined British accent and using one in advertising telegraphs a certain sophistication. Yes, we're suckers, and for that matter most of us can't tell an Australian from a Brit.

Spelling works the same way. Good spelling draws no attention, spelling color as colour does the Brit thing again, and bad spelling...well, it ain't pretty. So use a browser that includes a spell checker. Beyond that, what you say can go a long way to counteract bad spelling. And,btw, language and communication skills fall apart when you're under stress. Remember that when you're rounding the corner of a 16 hour shoot.

In my opinion, getting a refund for VP11 was the right thing to do. It wasn't working for you. That's good enough reason to get a refund Yes, you also needed to uninstall it and then if curiosity was killing you you could reinstall it as a trial. But I think it's pretty obvious if you follow this forum that VP11 isn't working for everyone. Unfortunately, not everyone follows forums.

Believe me, customers asking for refunds gets noticed. I do a lot of contracting work for a support division of a major PC manufacturer and I can tell you they get very stressed out over an escalation (once it gets to a support manager). It's pretty obvious you weren't looking for a fix, and when your time is limited you don't fix it, you replace it and move on.

As for hiring an additional editor, yes, we have the same problem. We have a total of 6 edit stations in house, 3 FCP and 3 PPro CS2. No Vegas except for me and I use it to support some non-editing work. We have two people who edit, one is the boss, the other has been doing one project forever so her skills aren't broad.

We have a hard time hiring freelancers to edit. Part of the problem is that we need people on a project basis which means the people we could use are often booked, and our need is so rare and sporadic that we haven't cultivated a good call list. Generally these are short term corporate projects.

Anyway, taking on an editor costs time and money. All I can say is that if you don't have either then you need to raise your rates. That'll get you both time and money as the list of clients thins out for a short period. What you're trying to do is squeeze your efficiency but if you tend to charge too little then being more efficient will only allow you to under-bill more.

At some point you might want to ask yourself why you work. If you work just so you can work some more then you're on the right track. On the other hand, if you work so that you can have nice things, evenings off, vacations, friends, good food, wine, etc., then maybe you need to rethink that business model. It's very hard to do that rethinking when you're slammed 7 days a week.

Rob

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: JimboWHO

Date:11/4/2011 11:39:20 AM

Yes RITSMER, he got what was coming to him. That'll teach him for using an 'inflammatory' title to this thread.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/4/2011 11:42:15 AM

"Probably a more suiting attitude than " Vegas 11 pro is un usable!" would have got him more suitable answers."

at the time I had had maybe 20+ crashes of vegas 11.
plus an interplolation problem that I hadnt experianced in 7,9,10 took a day to fitguer that one out,

and then with build 425 the time line issues occured.

It was my experiance that Vegas 11 was unsuable, I was frustraited and angry at the time.

If I could have changed the title later I would have when I had calmed down.

I personaly stil cant use vegas 11 but many can i except that,

i have been loyal to vegas and when vegas 12 comes out i no doubt will buy it, mind as advised i will wait for the bugs to be ironed out first and never open only copy of the file!

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Gary James

Date:11/4/2011 11:52:54 AM

I just had another problem with 64bit SVP 11.0 build 425. Vegas just froze up when I tried to switch the Sony Color Corrector (Secondary) Video Event FX from the Parameters Tab to the Custom Tab.

This action, along with changing Brightness and Contrast settings, was performed numerous times on different events just prior to Vegas freezing up.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/4/2011 3:28:35 PM

While it is disappointing that there turn out to be bug (serious bugs that have evidently got thru their beta-testing unfound) on some peoples' systems on release, it has only been out a matter of weeks and I'm sure they'll be working their butts off to address the problems.

Why not wait a few weeks for another update and try again, rather than (potentially) repeat the whole thing with a brand-new V12 !

geoff

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: paul_offline

Date:11/4/2011 3:30:49 PM

+1 Jimbo also.
Saddened by the attitudes of some on here, you know who you are. In my experience so far in life, people with a deficientcy in one area usualy excel in another. Albert Einstein is probably a good exmaple of that although maybe an extreme one, had to hire a mathematician to do his sums. His own maths was pretty bad. Point - its NO indicator for someones ability, just academics THINKING they are better. Shame. I have met teachers in schools that think this way also. So stop it guys.
Scubaman, you have a genuine case mate, and yes your title caused a stir thats clear. But your point was heard by some on here, including me. May i say - you do NEED to get another editor with you on that new workstation of yours. You are overworked and this means your TIME is only dedicated to editing and nothing else to meet deadlines. Its not a great way to run a company. Go get help, deligate the job like a good manager always knows how. Get some time back, then in the future WHEN (not if) bugs like this occur in your workflow, you are ABLE to spend time and address them. Your system failed, not because Vegas had a 10 to 11 project issue, but because of lack of time to address it. Thats my observation. Good luck mate.

Paul, Sunderland UK.

PS, yes MY spelling is shocking, i already know that.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: JimboWHO

Date:11/4/2011 3:34:08 PM

TLF

Yeah, it's nuts anymore. I see a critical post come in and watch a thread garner attention and I say to myself "here it comes". They almost never fail.

I'll bet you're referring to Avid's forum - that's who I hinted at above. Sure folks get off track but the ship quickly gets righted over there.

Subject:RE: Vegas 11 pro is un usable!

Reply by: photoscubaman

Date:11/4/2011 3:49:42 PM

Hi paul

thank you for the words of advice.

Im trying to sort everything I dotn have any more weddings until end of december so hopefully I can get all this resolved.

I'm going to make dam sure its not repeated next year and will hopefully have trained up a friend to take some of the work load.

John, northumberland