First Look at the Vegas 11 Stabilizer

amendegw wrote on 10/18/2011, 8:17 AM

In their advertising, Sony has hyped the improved stabilizer. I've played with it for a couple of hours & here's the results.

1) The stabilizer gets applied as a Media FX, rather than a take (as in the V10 stabilizer). That's okay, but it complicates issues like:
...a) Two events on the timeline, one stabilized, the other not.
...b) Splitting an event where you two different stabilization settings for each section.
2) The Vegas stabilizer has only three adjustments:
...a) A Pan Smoothing slide bar
...b) A Zoom Amount slide bar
...c) A Rolling Shutter Correction checkbox.
3) The first few tests resulted in some unexplained jerking (i.e. the image was steady, then abruptly shifted, then remained steady again). Or, it would be steady for a while and then seemed to lose stabilization. The following final render seemed to work fine - were the problems I experienced transitory? Fixed by a restart? Time will tell.

One of the reasons I value stabilization is for the Mercalli V2 "Rock Steady" template, i.e. emulating a tripod. So that's what I tested. I slid both slider bars on the Vegas Stabilizer to the 1.00 (max) setting and compared that to the Mercalli V2 "Rock Steady" template. IMHO, the Vegas stabilizer did a pretty good job (let's hope the glitches I saw in the early testing do not recur).

Here's "glich" I saw in my early testing (about the 10-11 sec mark).

...Jerry

Comments

amendegw wrote on 10/18/2011, 8:56 AM

Just some further documentation:

And the Mercalli V2 Vegas Plugin interface:

Here's the Vegas 11 Stabilizer interface:

...Jerry

Edit: Fixed the reversed captions on the pics.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 10/18/2011, 9:05 AM

Thanks, Jerry. Will be looking forward to furthers test regarding the "glitch."

kairosmatt wrote on 10/18/2011, 9:17 AM

I've seen exactly that kind of jerk glitch in BCC's optical stabalizer as well-but my footage probably a little tougher.

It was shot from a helicopter and I was just trying to smooth it out a little. Great results, except for a couple spots like what you got.

kairosmatt

Rv6tc wrote on 10/18/2011, 10:07 AM

Jerry,

I'm getting the same shift or jerk that you are seeing. Of course, I'm trying it on some air show footage that's beyond what could resaonably be expected to be smoothed out. Your original footage looked pretty good, so I"m not sure why you are getting it.

Keith

ChipGallo wrote on 10/18/2011, 10:11 AM

Do we know if this is still Mercalli code? I already own their full product.

johnmeyer wrote on 10/18/2011, 10:15 AM

I can't believe that you have to apply the stabilizer to the entire media. There must be a way to turn it on and off for a specific event. If not, it will make this feature completely useless.

Also, one of the amazingly great things about the kludge we put together for Deshaker is that you can cut an event anywhere and stabilize part of it, and not stabilize the rest, and at the point where you put the cut between the two, they match perfectly because Deshaker never moves either the first or last frame of any stabilized event. Once you discover this, it completely changes the way you view "Deshaking."

So, I am very much hoping that the Sony engineers didn't do something really stupid. If you truly cannot stabilize individual events that result from one media file, then that is stupidity of the first order.

[edit] Can you at least make subclips from a really long take, and then stabilize each subclip independently? This still would be a huge step backwards, but at least you could still use the stabilization. It would be a very slow, awkward workflow compared to what we have now.

im.away wrote on 10/18/2011, 11:29 AM

I also see the "jerkiness" that Jerry did and it appears to be random with little or nothing to do with motion in the original event (before stabilising.) I'm also having some curious issues with Vegas crashing when one particular event is stabilised. The base footage is M2T 1440 x 1080 50i. The event is 1m 30s in length. It crashes when the stabilisation process is 99% complete.

If I split this event, none of the split portions will stabilise without crashing Vegas. If I render the event to a new track in, say, mxf format, it still crashes if I try to stabilise the mxf event instead.

The same clip, placed on the Vegas 10e timeline and stabilised, works fine. Other M2T clips taken at the same time and by the same camera as the one that crashes when stabilising, work fine! These events were shorter in duration. I'm going to sift through my clips to see if I have any other longish ones that I can test. I want to rule out length of event as the issue. Will report back later.

Russ

jerald wrote on 10/18/2011, 11:35 AM

Hi, Jerry,
[[[1) The stabilizer gets applied as a Media FX, rather than a take (as in the V10 stabilizer). That's okay, but it complicates issues like:
...a) Two events on the timeline, one stabilized, the other not.]]]

SVPro 11 stabilization can be applied to a subclip.

SVPro 11 Sony Stabilization FX help states:
"If you're using only a portion of a longer media file, you can use the Trimmer window to create a subclip that contains only the portion of the media that is used in your project."

This allows one to have multiple events of the same media, some stabilized, some not, but requires creating subclips for each event in which stabilization is different. As flexible as before (I think), but not as convenient.

One thing I liked about the stabilizer in SVPro 10 was the feature that asked whether you wanted to create a subclip & if you select yes, it created the subclip for you.

Another thing I liked about the stabilizer in SVPro 10.0 was the fact that you could simply switch takes, reverting to the original footage, re-stabilize with different settings, and then, by switching takes, compare each iteration of stabilization with the others & the original footage. That was nice. The current paradigm will allow one to create multiple stabilization variations & compare to each other & the original footage, but it won't be as convenient.

Also, I was unpleasantly surprised at the (undesired) simplicity of the interface. I was mislead by the wording of the specification.
The SVPro 11 specifications state:
"New! Advanced video stabilization featuring motion analysis on the X, Y, and Z camera axes"

I inferred from this (incorrectly) that one would be able to controll these features. Big disappointment for me. I was very much looking forward to this for a particular application.

While I'm sure that someone will argue that the SVPro specification wording is correct, I would argue that it is not. Apparently it is referring to some aspect of the stabilization processing functionality that is not exposed to the user.

In marketing terminology, it may be a feature, but I see no benefit.

Jerald

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 10/18/2011, 12:23 PM

Jerald, I think the main point for stating X, Y, and Z axis is to tell stereo 3D folks that it will stabilize with 3D properly perhaps?

Not sure, but that's my guess.

Dave

marky1 wrote on 10/18/2011, 12:26 PM

Hi.. can anyone help. when applying the stabilizer it did not seem to analise the video, a percentage bar come up for a milli second then dissapears...

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 10/18/2011, 12:45 PM

Hi,

I fully agree, the new stabilizer in VP11 is a huge step backwards!!

You don't have any detailed control of the process even if SCS claims that there is better control over x,y,z... If there is enough shake in the video the final results zooms (still) too far in (was a problem in the VP10 version), and there is no way of controlling it. I also miss the option to stabilize without zooming (leaving black edges around the images that you cold them later manually re-size according to your taste).

The other big disappointment is that you cannot anymore apply the stabilizer to individual clips. And after having added the stabilisation to the media there is no visual clue anymore on the timeline that a belonging clip is already stabilized.... I wonder if SCS people really USE the application for real video editing work, internally?

I also invested very recently in a new and expensive Nvidia CUDA enabled video card, that is useless with VP11 since it is not Cuda 2.0 compatible. Another big disappointment.

Good grief, this is a step backwards in usability... Whats the use to add such "toy" features to a "Pro" application? Luckily I have Mercalli that does a decent job (haven't tried it yet with VP11 though...)

So far I have not got any value for the money spent on the upgrade. Newblue titler, hmm maybe, but I don't need fancy fonts for serious video....

Knock on wood, at least VP11 has not crashed yet on me... but again, Í have used it only for a about two hours...

Christian

drewU2 wrote on 10/18/2011, 3:17 PM

As an early adopter and big supporter of Sony Vegas and other Sony software, I am extremely disappointed in the decision to not leave stabilization in the right-click menu. I edit full-time, and use the stabilizer constantly.

Sony, really? Did you not realize that editors were going to learn to rely on the right-click of the stabilizer constantly?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add it back to the right-click menu.

If not, I'm forced to go back to Vegas Pro 10 even though I like the other improvements of 11 and I already paid for 11.

Jim H wrote on 10/18/2011, 6:03 PM

DITTO all of the complaints on this thread... in case Sony is keeping score. :)

Marco. wrote on 10/18/2011, 7:28 PM

Can you at least make subclips from a really long take, and then stabilize each subclip independently?

Yes, e.g. you can simply have a subclip of a trimmed timeline event - added as take automatically - and apply the stabilizer as media fx onto that take.

jerald wrote on 10/18/2011, 7:58 PM

Hi, Dave,

The point is, you have to guess. Just to make my point, Dave, does this stated feature increase your desire to buy Sony Vegas Pro 11? (No need to answer. Just hoping to illustrate what I mean.) If we can't translate the feature into a meaningful benefit, then...

By the way, I would guess that "Advanced video stabilization featureing motion analysis on the X, Y, and Z camera axes" means something different (though you are just as likely to be correct as I am, since the meaning of the feature is a mystery).

I would guess that "Advanced video stabilization featureing motion analysis on the X, Y, and Z camera axes" means that the SVPro 11 stabilizer analyzes and corrects for undesired camera body rotation about the x, y and z axis, hence pitch, yaw, and roll (or in other terminology I've read: pan, tilt, and roll).

My hope, upon reading the specification, and before testing SVPro 11, was that one could adjust the compensation amount in each axis. I often shoot dance performance. I would love to be able to stabilize a shot of a dancer leaping, however, most of the time when I attempt to stabilize such a shot, the frame follows the dancer up and down during the leap, which in fact ADDS undesired motion (think about a solo dancer moving across stage, doing the leap, and suddenly the stage floor drops because the stabilizer is keying on the dancer. It just doesn't work, visually.

Anyway, Dave, thanks so much for your post & your desire to help.
Maybe Sony will see our discussion & clarify the meaning of their specification.

Jerald

DGates wrote on 10/18/2011, 11:21 PM

Your original footage on the YouTube clip wasn't much of a challenge.

marky1 wrote on 10/21/2011, 3:32 PM

i have found bug... stabilizer on my machine only works in 8 bit not 32 floating point... weird

eightyeightkeys wrote on 10/21/2011, 4:07 PM

I'm not going to complain....much....since VP11 is 100% more stable than VP10 was on my W7 machine...but...I did like the old Stabilize implementation better than the new....I cannot say whether the stabilize algorithm is any better or not, but, being able to split a clip on the timeline, apply it only to one or the other part of that clip is far superior.

Gary James wrote on 10/21/2011, 4:50 PM

Sorry to be off topic. But I've been trying to figure out how you embedded HTML into your post to this forum. I've tried doing that in other topics, but I can't find a way to do it!

Can you share the secret?

vkmast wrote on 10/21/2011, 4:55 PM

Hi.

Does this help?

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=521500

Gary James wrote on 10/21/2011, 5:03 PM



Hi.



Does this help?



www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=521500

Immensely, Thanks

Ros wrote on 10/21/2011, 5:03 PM

This may be even easier:

http://madison.thewikies.com/sonyforumpreview/

Rob

Arthur.S wrote on 10/22/2011, 9:33 AM

So...if the Vegas 11 stabilizer is poo...does the free Deshaker work with Vegas 11?

WillemT wrote on 10/22/2011, 11:35 AM

Using the latest version of New Deshaker. Works great with VP 11 and the free version of Cineform.

Select the event, or events, on the timeline and click the toolbar icon. Added as take so easily compared with the original and, if required, no zoom. Hard to beat.

Willem.