Subject:about mastering a song

Posted by: flwolf

Date:9/27/2001 11:16:40 AM

Thanks to all who responded to my above issue.
However, I am still wondering why SF doesn't have a UV meter, as other, similar programs have. Most of the responses ended up in some type of Trial & Error method, which is neither very scientific nor satisfying.

Subject:RE: about mastering a song

Reply by: beetlefan

Date:9/27/2001 1:57:38 PM

Of course it has a meter!
mine has one. It's in the ads.

Subject:RE: about mastering a song

Reply by: LanceL

Date:9/27/2001 2:02:12 PM

Make sure that you have Play Meters checked in the View menu.

Subject:RE: about mastering a song

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:9/27/2001 2:59:41 PM

I believe the question was "why doesn't Sound Forge have a VU meter?" And Sound Forge doesn't!!!! Being a mastering engineer I know what he is refering too. To get levels equal, it is best to use a VU meter. Sound Forge has a "Peak" meter. I've posted this lack of a VU meter in the past and explained why one is needed over just a "Peak" meter.

A quick explanation is that a "VU" meter reads on an average level.....this is also how your ears perceive loudness...on an average level. So if many songs read the same level on a VU meter, then they will match in level when assembled onto a CD. I use an external VU meter when mastering in Sound Forge. I wrote to the product suggestions and requested and explained to them the need for a VU meter....the reply. "Thanks for the suggestion, we'll consider this."

As a side note....Wavelab has a VU meter function. I guess Steinberg has more of a grip on mastering needs.

Beetlefan you misunderstood the question, you should apologize.

Peace,
Brian Franz

Subject:RE: about mastering a song

Reply by: beetlefan

Date:9/27/2001 5:12:16 PM

Well, since you sounded like you were scolding me like a child I WON'T apologize, but, yes, I dropped the ball on that one! Yes, I do know the difference between peak and VU metering.

It's just that I watch the peaks of the peak meters to determine the average levels. Where there's a will there's a way.

Subject:RE: about mastering a song

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:9/27/2001 8:18:16 PM

It's all good, you're response just sounded a little like you thought he was a moron, because he couldn't see the meters. And it was dually supported by LanceL. I understood what his question was from his original post about mastering. You guys gave the answer to use "RMS Normalizing", which is almost the same as if you where to use a "VU Meter", since a VU meter is also known as an "RMS Meter". There is a lot of guess work in using RMS Normalization, like the original post said, because you really don't know what to set the RMS value for. Where as if you have a VU meter you can take a CD of something commercially mastered and see where that reads on a VU meter and then master your material so that it matches that RMS value. Yes, you are correct in that your ears are the bottom factor, but also if you want your mastering to sound professional you have to match your levels to all other professionally mastered CD's, otherwise your mastering might sound great, but sounds not as loud as everyone elses CD, and people usually perceive LOUD being BETTER.....unfortunately.

So, my solution that should really get at what he's asking is to have a piece of external equipment that has a VU meter and use that as I previously mentioned by comparing the levels of other mastered material and matching them up, with whatever mastering tools you choose. I sometimes also use Steinberg's "Magneto" plugin, which is an Analog Tape Saturation tool, that really works like a compressor and it has VU meters on it. The meters are nowhere as accurate as I'ld like them to be, but it's a little more accurate then guessing where the average level is on a peak meter.

So to Sonic Foundry, as I wrote to their engineering when v5.0 was originally released. Sound Forge needs VU meters so that it really can be a professional mastering tool..........and CD ARCHITECT!!!!!

Thank you....good night!!!

Subject:RE: about mastering a song

Reply by: beetlefan

Date:9/27/2001 10:26:24 PM

But Rednroll, there's no reason to match a commercial CD's volume if it's going to compromise the sound. I am not of the "louder is better" camp, and neither are most engineers. It is usually the artists and the record companies that push the issue.

Now, having said that, there are some types of music that can benifit from the limiting and/or compression it takes to boost levels.