camera profiles...

ushere wrote on 7/8/2011, 11:08 PM
picking up the other thread (tom, grazie, et al).

though i have the capability, and have played a bit with them, are people using profiles as an everyday item?

by this i mean setting up the 'look' of a whole production in camera rather than in post?

if creating a 'look' in camera does this then limit what can be done in post?

i'm thinking that, say for arguments sake, i do a csi blandford look, (not too dissimilar to csi miami ;-)), then the client goes 'OMG, that looks awful!', how easy / difficult is it to 'revert'?

i'm happily using grads in a matt box, but jerking around the colour / saturation, etc., rather scares me.

Comments

Laurence wrote on 7/8/2011, 11:23 PM
I use the one I got off the Vortex HVR-Z7U training DVD. I use it all the time. It just looks so much better that way. Basically it looks like the treatment I used to put on my projects in post all the time. Just wonderful really. That's the thing I miss the most when i use DSLR.
Tom Pauncz wrote on 7/9/2011, 9:18 AM
Laurence,
Could you post a short clip so we can see??
Thanks,
Tom
musicvid10 wrote on 7/9/2011, 9:30 AM
This whole subject of intra-camera profiles seems roughly analagous to audio preamps that are able to model different mic countours and preamp configurations at the wellhead. Maybe more useful than audio modeling.

Nice if you're sure your going to want it that way, but near impossible to remove in post if you decide you don't. Am I correct?
Tom Pauncz wrote on 7/9/2011, 9:35 AM
Too right musicvid ...

Though profiles do come in handy if you need to match two or more dissimilar cameras.

As I said in my post, the supplied one I have, and used, are SONY PD150/170, DSR series - they're actually called Pro Color, PD Color, Film Look1 and Film Look 2.

I have used PD Color, to match my VX2000 in a 2 camera shoot. So long as the WB was correct in both, footage from the two matched very well....

Tom
Woodenmike wrote on 7/9/2011, 10:07 AM
Where are these set in a Sony camera? I've read about using the memory stick to copy settings from one camera to another, but never seen anything in the menus for setting this up.
Tom Pauncz wrote on 7/9/2011, 10:48 AM
On my HVR-S270, there is a button on the side of the camera and once you click on the actual profile, it can be changed or set as the current profile.

Then there is a menu option - OTHER - that lets you save and load camera settings, which includes the profiles, to a memory stick. A camera that can use these saved settings just needs to load them.

Tom
Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/9/2011, 11:41 AM

This may be stating the obvious, but not all profiles work on all cameras, like a Panasonic and Sony. Not even all profiles work on all cameras by the same manufacturer, like the Sony EX1 profiles will not work on a Sony Z7, and so on.


im.away wrote on 7/9/2011, 6:03 PM
Further to Jay's observation, the dvinfo.net forum has a lot of info categorised by camera type. With many of the camera types there is a "sticky" for the "picture profiles" (or whatever the specific manufacturer likes to call them) that have been added by users of the cameras. I have found the one for the EX1 and EX1R to be very helpful.

Cheers

Russ
Serena wrote on 7/9/2011, 9:16 PM
While one can set up the desired look in-camera, maybe better to ensure that all options are available for post? Set up for optimum data recording. Obviously there is no "right" way to do this and will be influenced by your intentions for grading. The BBC white papers are a good guide http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper034-base.shtmlBBC White Paper 34[/link]; addendum 30 deals with EX1/3.
craftech wrote on 7/10/2011, 5:41 AM
The BBC white papers are a good guide BBC White Paper 34; addendum 30 deals with EX1/3.
================
I think the biggest problem people found with that whitepaper when it came out was this statement:

Although there is no standard definition recording mode, the 720p mode is very clean and should be the best way to shoot should the camera be expected to produce an SD output. The quality of this 720p mode is highly unusual in any camcorder.

Everyone who tried it seemed to complain of horrible results (that I saw posted at DVInfo anyway).

John
ushere wrote on 7/10/2011, 6:17 AM
craftech - were the bad reviews at ntsc frame rate?
Serena wrote on 7/10/2011, 8:19 PM
Craftech, nevertheless there is a lot more than the recommendation re 720P for producing SD. Not having tested that I can't comment, and otherwise have found the setting parameters sensible. But as with all things, I've not used them slavishly without testing (and quicker to read than the thread on DVInfo!)
Grazie wrote on 7/10/2011, 9:14 PM
Oh Joy!

When I FINALLY do get my new Canon XF 300 I have this to look forward to. Mind you it is a BBC approved beast. I suppose I should get it together easily. Yes?

Maybe the BEEB should supply some BEEB approved profiles to fit ALL BEEB approved cameras? Now there's novel. Closing the Process Circle by using the technology that's been laid on plate for all of us. ([I]You'd think - huh?[/I])

Grazie



Serena wrote on 7/10/2011, 9:41 PM
They do give you their preferred settings. Maybe not as good as having them on a memory stick, but good anyway.
Grazie wrote on 7/10/2011, 9:51 PM
I was thinking as something a wee bit simpler - a download. I wonder when we'll see a WiFi enabled cammie?

Grazie

Serena wrote on 7/10/2011, 10:57 PM
Right. Well you can already download firmware updates so I guess profiles shouldn't be difficult. Not aware that we can actually do that, and of course we do have to download via a computer. Not yet WiFi.
farss wrote on 7/11/2011, 1:30 AM
Never tried it with my EX1 but as far as I know given that you can save and load PPs to the cards I can see no reason why I couldn't share the appropriate file from one of my cards and anyone could download the file, copy it to their SxS card and then load it into their EX1.

I did read some time ago that some PPs for the F35 were closely guarded secrets. If you were shooting for certain productions their guy would turn up with a memory stick holding custom PPs to be loaded into the cameras and they were deleted from the cameras at the end of the shoot. No doubt NDAs were also involved. If memory serves me well there were (are?) people selling custom PPs for that camera.

Bob.

PeterWright wrote on 7/11/2011, 2:47 AM
Yes Bob, I seem to remember that the DVInfo EX1 Forum had many PPs that people shared - either download or just copy the settings listed for each parameter and Save ..... like others have said, I prefer to shoot "vanilla" and do it all in post.

If some precious F35 folk prefer to keep theirs as "closely guarded secrets" or selling them - maybe they're frustrated musicians, still trying to live off a three minute track they recorded 30 years ago ....
Serena wrote on 7/11/2011, 9:16 PM
Certainly profiles can be copied via SxS cards. Of course we do already have WiFi (and 3G) video cameras --- phones.
Bill Ravens wrote on 7/12/2011, 4:36 AM
Most, if not all, cameras with a picture profile capability are not optimized for maximum dynamic range when using the default settings. Setting the appropriate black level, gamma curve, and knee can buy the shooter up to 1.5 stops of increased dynamic range. Furthermore, many recommended profiles will not give the shooter an "out of the camera" good look. The profiles are designed for grading in post to really squeeze highlight and shadow detail out of the capture.Settling for the default presets can really do your camera a performance dis-service.