well grazie, i didn't really want to say that ;-)

but in all seriousness, IF 3d is such a big deal it's pretty amazing there's so little noise / chatter about it, if it isn't (and i suspect apart from a 'few' serious users) it really isn't, why did marketing have to go and ignore a very loyal, but exceedingly jittery following with a 'gimmick' at the expense of properly developing 10 for 'regular' professionals?

if you DO work with 3d, don't bother flaming, i've got asbestos underwear, and i wasn't looking for a fight in the first place.

I doubt what has been added in V10 to support S3D involved a huge amount of R&D time. Much of it could already be done with Vegas. All that was required was to make it more convenient. Decoding the S3D streams would have taken a bit of work but really the cameras are recording two streams using the same codec so not such a huge effort.

I'm not much across what the high end S3D capable systems can do compared to Vegas, they seem able to do more, like compensate for minor difference in optics. I doubt we'll see such features in Vegas and even if we did parts of the code would be usable for those shooting 2D as well.

In summary what I'm saying is if they'd not done the work on S3D it wouldn't have freed up much for anything else anyway. Which leads me to a question, what needed to be done in V10 that hasn't been done?
I've got my own opinion(s) but I'd like others to air their grievances.

Bob.

"I'd like others to air their grievances."

Personally, I have no grievances. 10c works just fine for me.

I have no grievances, though there are a few features I'd like to see.

One being a histogram waveform on the video events, like we have the waveform graphics on audio. it should help spot changes such as Lights on/off, pan, zoom events and if some insensitive clod walks in front of the camera.

The other being a better title scroll, and being able to paste/write multi line text into for instance the ProType titler instead of having to manually insert line breaks, and writing justified text is not easy. (at least I haven't been able to find this).

Also, separate text from the event, so you can just drop a text onto an text-display-event to change it's content. That one should also allow for text transformation events/scripts.

"Personally, I have no grievances. 10c works just fine for me"

Perhaps my use of the word "grievance" was wrong as it could be taken to be pejorative. I was really asking what people thought the R&D dollars that were spent on supporting S3D should have been spent on instead in V10.

Bob.

fixes to outstanding bugs, ie. loss of source tc, ditto, chroma rectangle sample tool, and others that have been mention hereabouts, though i haven't (thankfully) suffered from.

as to where the money 'might have gone'

a. some serious examination of edl production - even a simple cmx for goodness sake.

b. a move away from antiquated vfw.

c. basic housekeeping abilities, such as directorys within fx and trans tabs (yes, i know it's possible in manager, but why not in tabs?)

there's obviously more 'simple' examples i've read in various posts, the above are simply my 'gripes'.

don't get me wrong - vegas 10 reaches the parts the other nle's can't (thanks heineken), but it could be a good deal better even at a lowly level.

"Or that AND, Leslie, nobody is using 3-D enough to warrant any further speculation?"

I've done some 3D work already and everything works reasonably well. I've now produced 3 or 4 SBS (half) videos for playback on my 3D tv and it looks really good. I think "ready made" 3D effects are a bit limited, but more will come in time. What I have noticed in fact is that in the 3D world... Vegas is king

What would be brilliant however is if version 11 comes with editing ability for MVC/ frame packed interlace. This is what the new consumer 3D full res cams are shooting with and at present there is NOTHING that can edit this stuff. If SCS would beat others to the punch in this arena... then it would be quite tough for any competitor to knock the crown off.

"it really isn't, why did marketing have to go and ignore a very loyal, but exceedingly jittery following with a 'gimmick' at the expense of properly developing 10 for 'regular' professionals?"


And 3D isn't professional?
I think Hollywood would disagree. They needed to lure people back into the dying theaters and they used 3D to do it. It paid off too.

As for it being a "gimmick".... isn't everything? Isn't 24p a "gimmick" of sorts? How about the 'shaky' cam on some of the newer tv series shows... that's a "gimmick" isn't it? How about that carefully planned fade that you insert?

It's ALL gimmick. That's what video and movies are. If you haven't learned that by now then you're most certainly in the wrong business!!!

Now.... what gimmicks appeal to your taste.... that's a different ball game. Personally speaking I think 24p is a total waste of time and energy. Are we truly back in the WWll era where we need to conserve film?? Good Lord... this is 2011... we're hinging on 60p... why the heck do you want to view 60 plus year old technology???

As for the 3D popularity... You're starting to see it now. It's just like Blu Ray... slowly creeping in. Almost no one asked Blu Ray related questions a year ago. Now... it's pretty much the norm. Well... you're STARTING to see the odd 3D question popping up too.

Like it or not 3D is the next gimmick... and believe it or not... it's here bigger than it ever has been. We have 3D on broadcast, we have full res 3D consumer cams, we have 3D editors... We can now pretty much watch imax quality in our own living room. Those like you who are unaccepting of these facts should start looking for other lines of work/hobby... because you have completely missed the scope, size and concept of all this. And if your info is up to date then you have no blu ray burner and you're still stuck in the wonderful (and old fashioned) world of HDV... so I guess it's not hard to understand why you see things in such a confusing light. Bit of advice... update and upgrade your way of thinking and with the ever changing times..... or get left sadly behind.

"....with a 'gimmick' at the expense of properly developing 10 for 'regular' professionals?"



Oh... and BTW... Here's a couple of Amateurs using an amateur 3D cam to shoot an amateur wedding... to make money for their amateur business. I can't swear to it... but my guess is that they used the amateur Sony Vegas to do the amateur editing and amateur blu ray burning.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1324556

http://www.the3devent.com/

Now fortunately you don't have to deal with any of this amateurish stuff because you're a.... "regular Professional"!

Now fortunately you don't have to deal with any of this amateurish stuff because you're a.... "regular Professional"!

rob, nowhere have i EVER said event work isn't professional, far from it.... by 'regular' i simply meant people working collaboratively (an area where vegas is an epic fail).

obviously you haven't had to supply clients with raw tc dubs, nor exchange a 'simple' edl with someone working say, sweetening on protools, or graphics in another nle.

You've certainly got a point there. The best efforts of SCS at providing new features seem to fall over in the marketplace because of the basics. V9 introduced support for Red RAW. Checking over at Reduser.net and looking through the Vegas subforum under workflow I find mostly existing Vegas users and one hot topic is timecode / EDL and Magic Bullet. Of some note also is that of all the post tools the Vegas section has the lowest thread count, even Adobe manages an order of magnitude more interest and Apple exceeds the combined sum of all the rest, sigh.

Whilst I still believe S3D was something SCS had to add in V10, in part because of their connection to Sony, I have not seen S3D raising much interest in the consummer / prosummer market unlike the cinema market. As you probably know Australia's first S3D wedding was shot in July 2010 by Joffe with the protoype Panny camera. From the local wedding guys I hear that was the one and only wedding shot in S3D, locally, ever. If S3D was going to take off in the prosummer space I'd have expected to see it being The Next Big Thing for the wedding guys and it just hasn't happened. The only interest we've had from people wanting to shoot S3D has been with the SI2K and mirror rigs and that's a smidge above the market segment where you find many Vegas users.


Personally I'd like to see more effort put into the GUI. The trimmer still has its annoyances. The inability to lock down parts if not "all except" sections of the timeline leaves me feeling like I'm editing while walking on egg shells. Adding folder tracks in V10 was great but why when a folder is collapsed and out of view is it not locked, wierd. Why is the default behaviour of the Split tool to split everything when nothing is selected, please SCS rip off the razor tool from Ppro, how hard can that be?

Bob.

"obviously you haven't had to supply clients with raw tc dubs, nor exchange a 'simple' edl with someone working say, sweetening on protools, or graphics in another nle. "

Does Vegas Have short-comings? Sure... they all do in some fashion or another. But what you have essentially said is that YOUR idea of what's important, is in fact what is important. I promise you that 3D editors around the world would disagree with your stance.

Secondly... I'm not sure you're looking at Vegas in the proper light. To my eyes Vegas was built to be a COMPLETE tool.... not so much a collaborative tool, or a 'SUB' tool. Programs like Avid MC, Final Cut, even Premiere pro were built to be 'sub' tools and work in a package with other 'sub' tools. By themselves they are incomplete. For example, have you ever tried to do finite audio work in MC or FC? They weren't built for that... you take the audio elsewhere (like ProTools).

Now... does this ideology hurt Vegas? Well, it depends on very much who you are... and if you're in that boat where you need to work in a collaborative effort... then maybe Vegas is not for you.

"To my eyes Vegas was built to be a COMPLETE tool"

Not true at all. SCS have a suite of tools. I'm quite regularly bouncing audio from Vegas into Sound Forge and if I wasn't a musical black hole I'd possibly using Acid and let's not forget SCS tried to further enhance the suite with the now defunct Cinescore.

Bob.

Where is Vegas 10 D? Who cares about 3d gimmicks? Why are people so defensive about software that is losing support and stability? Doth the lady protest too much?

Seriously, where is Vegas 10 D?

"Not true at all. SCS have a suite of tools. I'm quite regularly bouncing audio from Vegas into Sound Forge"

A) You bounce out of want, not need. Vegas has everything required to produce top notch audio without the use of other tools. Not so with MC, FC... etc. In fact Vegas is the only nle out there that comes complete with a pro level ac3 encoder right out of the box.

B) The suite that SCS offers is not integrated... at least not like CS5 is.

"Who cares about 3d gimmicks?"

Uhhh, that would be me.