Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's -Sound Forge - PC

Subject:Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's Posted by: Dave2 Date:8/18/2001 9:04:13 PM I have received excellent advice on this forum that using a preamp will help eliminate Microphone to PC video voice overs recording problems. I have been researching on the web and in music hardware stores. Based on the information I have gathered and with the end use firmly used as a base I have narrowed my choices down to three units. 1. DBX 266a. Highly recommended on this forum by a 266a user and seemly knowledgeable sales people. Here's where I need some educated advice. 2. A DBX Mini vacuum tube microphone preamp. This is a new product from DBX. It's claim to fame is that it has a vacuum tube which is supposed to (sales quote)'add warmth to voice overs' I could not find any user reports for this unit. Any advice for this unit will be greatly apprecited. One thing I noticed at the DBX site was that they offered a analog to digital option, not sure if with my Sound Blaster live value card I would need this. 3. Finally a Event Emp-1. I could not find anything for this on their web site. Hardly worth mentioning except maybe someone is using this with good results. Thanks Dave M.
Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's Reply by: Rednroll Date:8/19/2001 3:49:38 PM First of all the mic/pre you are referring to is the 286A...not 266a. I own 2 of these and they work very good. The other mic/pre that the salesman is trying to sell you is the DBX 376. If has all the same features as the 286A, but has a tube pre-amp instead of a solid state transistor and also has a direct digital out. You would not be able to use the digital out unless your sound card has a digital input. I talked about A/D converters in your other posts, the more A/D converters you run the audio signal to the more noise you will acquire. The 376 has a good A/D converter and the idea behind this is to come out of the 387 by the digital output so that you can avoid using a cheaper A/D converter, which is typical in cheaper sound cards...like soundblaster. When the audio goes into your PC it is stored digitally, so somewhere along the line it goes through this Analog conversion. Most Event sound cards have a digital input, so if you got one of these cards you could run the 387 digital out to the sound cards digital IN and thus avoid more A/D conversions, giving you a cleaner signal. The 387 is a lot more expensive than the 286a, more than double. It is a very good unit and I will probably buy one of these. The warmth that the sales person is talking about is due to the use of the tube preamp that the 387 has. This increases the price tag significantly. You may or may not even notice this when you are recording if you are unfamiliar with the slight sound difference that each has. More trained ear professional know what to listen for. If you have the budget then go for the 387, you will benefit from it more in the long run once you get more experience recording. I am a professional and the 286a is a very good piece of gear, but like I said the 387 is also on my want list right now. Sales people tend to overuse that term "Warmth".....Warmth is actually adding noise in most cases....some is desirable noise. You can think of this same "Warmth" as of a Cassette compared to a CD. Cassettes have that analog "Warmth" compared to a CD...(ie it adds analog hiss, which is a caracteristic of tape). Tube pre-amps do a similar type of thing. I could go into more detail comparing the 2 but this post has gotten much too long already.
Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's Reply by: jgalt Date:8/20/2001 7:42:53 AM I concur almost 100% with Rednroll's info.
Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's Reply by: Dave2 Date:8/20/2001 8:54:00 PM Thanks Rednroll for the detailed information you have shared on this subject. You not only helped me choose a pre amp suited for my needs, you convinced me that I need to look for a sound card with digital in. This suggestion fits because I have a DV camera anyway. As we say in the editing world- garbage in= garbage out. I have to keep in focus my end product, which is a high end video reproduced on standard VCR equipment that will allow playback on any VCR, Old or new. You have helped solve a part of even a larger Issue. I have settled on the 286a. The address for the 'DBX mini-pre vacuum tube' I referred to is: Http://www.dbxpro.com/minipre.htm The price quoted to me for this unit was about 150 dollars. Thanks Again Dave M.
Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's Reply by: Dave2 Date:8/20/2001 11:39:03 PM BTW. jgalt If you have comments on this Issue and wish to do so without putting your self in the line of fire. You may email me at dcmelvin@icehouse.net Dave M.

Subject:Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's

Posted by: Dave2

Date:8/18/2001 9:04:13 PM

I have received excellent advice on this forum that using a preamp will help eliminate Microphone to PC video voice overs recording problems.

I have been researching on the web and in music hardware stores. Based on the information I have gathered and with the end use firmly used as a base I have narrowed my choices down to three units.

1. DBX 266a. Highly recommended on this forum by a 266a user and seemly knowledgeable sales people.

Here's where I need some educated advice.

2. A DBX Mini vacuum tube microphone preamp. This is a new product from DBX. It's claim to fame is that it has a vacuum tube which is supposed to (sales quote)'add warmth to voice overs' I could not find any user reports for this unit. Any advice for this unit will be greatly apprecited. One thing I noticed at the DBX site was that they offered a analog to digital option, not sure if with my Sound Blaster live value card I would need this.

3. Finally a Event Emp-1. I could not find anything for this on their web site. Hardly worth mentioning
except maybe someone is using this with good results.

Thanks

Dave M.

Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:8/19/2001 3:49:38 PM

First of all the mic/pre you are referring to is the 286A...not 266a. I own 2 of these and they work very good. The other mic/pre that the salesman is trying to sell you is the DBX 376. If has all the same features as the 286A, but has a tube pre-amp instead of a solid state transistor and also has a direct digital out. You would not be able to use the digital out unless your sound card has a digital input. I talked about A/D converters in your other posts, the more A/D converters you run the audio signal to the more noise you will acquire. The 376 has a good A/D converter and the idea behind this is to come out of the 387 by the digital output so that you can avoid using a cheaper A/D converter, which is typical in cheaper sound cards...like soundblaster. When the audio goes into your PC it is stored digitally, so somewhere along the line it goes through this Analog conversion. Most Event sound cards have a digital input, so if you got one of these cards you could run the 387 digital out to the sound cards digital IN and thus avoid more A/D conversions, giving you a cleaner signal. The 387 is a lot more expensive than the 286a, more than double. It is a very good unit and I will probably buy one of these.

The warmth that the sales person is talking about is due to the use of the tube preamp that the 387 has. This increases the price tag significantly. You may or may not even notice this when you are recording if you are unfamiliar with the slight sound difference that each has. More trained ear professional know what to listen for. If you have the budget then go for the 387, you will benefit from it more in the long run once you get more experience recording. I am a professional and the 286a is a very good piece of gear, but like I said the 387 is also on my want list right now. Sales people tend to overuse that term "Warmth".....Warmth is actually adding noise in most cases....some is desirable noise. You can think of this same "Warmth" as of a Cassette compared to a CD. Cassettes have that analog "Warmth" compared to a CD...(ie it adds analog hiss, which is a caracteristic of tape). Tube pre-amps do a similar type of thing. I could go into more detail comparing the 2 but this post has gotten much too long already.

Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's

Reply by: jgalt

Date:8/20/2001 7:42:53 AM

I concur almost 100% with Rednroll's info.

Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's

Reply by: Dave2

Date:8/20/2001 8:54:00 PM

Thanks Rednroll for the detailed information you have shared on this subject. You not only helped me choose a pre amp suited for my needs, you convinced me that I need to look for a sound card with digital in. This suggestion fits because I have a DV camera anyway. As we say in the editing world- garbage in= garbage out.

I have to keep in focus my end product, which is a high end video reproduced on standard VCR equipment that will allow playback on any VCR, Old or new. You have helped solve a part of even a larger Issue.

I have settled on the 286a.

The address for the 'DBX mini-pre vacuum tube' I referred to is:

Http://www.dbxpro.com/minipre.htm

The price quoted to me for this unit was about 150 dollars.

Thanks Again

Dave M.

Subject:RE: Need Final Suggestions for Preamp's

Reply by: Dave2

Date:8/20/2001 11:39:03 PM

BTW. jgalt If you have comments on this Issue and wish to do so without putting your self in the line of fire. You may email me at dcmelvin@icehouse.net

Dave M.