A1: I sure hope so.
A2: I can find no justification for this, it has to be unintended behavior surely.
A3: Not that I've read of.

Does this also affect audio chains, I hope not or there could be blood on the walls.

Question further to Leslie's comment; why is it taking so long for these bugs to surface?

Bob.

[I]"Question further to Leslie's comment; why is it taking so long for these bugs to surface?"[/I]

Maybe they have? And maybe it's harder to rectify than other bugs? As I said I realise that the controls have undergone a major refit.

Apart from bringing this to SONY's attention, when I come across it, I don't know what else to do? But Bob, without you actually going to the States personally, and standing over the progammers shoulder and quizzing them on the why's and wherefores of why something isn't happening, there's not much else to be done. Is there?

Grazie

I think you've misunderstood my question.
My question was why are WE taking so long to find these bugs. I have two theories and none of them are very pleasant.

1) There's less hardcore Vegas users around.
2) We're all gun shy from the issues with V8/9 so no one really wants to risk major projects on the new version. So no one finds the bugs, we're all waiting for someone else to do it.

Bob.

i'm no tech head, just your average editor trying to make a living using what professes to be a professional nle, but the problems arising seem to be more 'deep-seated' than the 'in your face' type - though that said, the recent debacle with clip tc is quite extraordinary.

we have a wide range of users here, from hobbyists through to heavy duty pros, and many of the recent 'bugs' seem to be at the 'pro' end of the scale - such as the one grazie's just picked up (though it just goes to show how few people bother with ptt and it's fubar preview).

i don't doubt the scs team 'tests' their releases, but i can't see how they could ever hope to over every base between the, what 20>30(?) of them.

this is where you really need wide beta testing BEFORE release - otherwise the more we become beta testers the more likely we are to move on to something that doesn't waste our time and can make us money reliably.

"this is where you really need wide beta testing BEFORE release - otherwise the more we become beta testers the more likely we are to move on to something that doesn't waste our time and can make us money reliably."

Beta testing still takes us time and money.
Many seem to treat the first release of Vegas as a beta release anyway and the bugs are not being found. You see the problem.

Public beta works well for software like an operating system, it's software for computer geeks and finding a bug earns credits, you could build a good career just from finding bugs. It doesn't work that way with an NLE, am I going to get a call from an agency because I'm the guy who found a bug in Vegas or FCS?

Bob.

I am using 10.0a (too many problems reported with later version). I tried to re-create the problem, but could not get it to fail.

I put two fX on an event (not a track). I then chose "animate" for each event, added some keyframes, and changed each fX at each keyframe. I then dragged the first event past the second event so they were now in a different order. All my keyframes were intact, and the settings for each keyframe were the same.

Were you doing this on a track, rather than event? Were you doing this in a version other than 10.0a? Are you using the 64-bit version of Vegas 10?

In answer to Bob's question, I think one of the reasons bugs take so long to find is that many of the pros no longer spend much time on this forum. I could provide a long list of the really good people who no longer post here, or only do on rare occasions. Also, however, I think that part of the problem is that so many people are using different versions of the product. I still do most of my everyday editing in 7.0d, and then render in 8.0c. I only use 10.0a when I need some of the few essential things that have been added since 7.0d, such as the amazing "elastique" audio stretching. Most other things, such as faster timeline playback of AVCHD don't affect me much because I've been able to playback native AVCHD at acceptable speed since day one, and in the few cases when it was a problem, I simply convert to Cineform.

I think there have been a few polls of what version people are using, and I don't remember the outcome, but I do suspect that those who edit against deadlines still often use the older versions.

John, I said reorder the FX links, not the Events on the timeline. Give that a go. I use VP9e for paid/deadline work. Works for me.

I have VP10c 32bit on a 32bit OS and tested the above on Event not Track.

I have notified SONY.

Grazie

Can't repro here...

Created project in VP9.0e, generated text, two FXs keyframed, re-ordered FXs - OK.

Opened SAME project in VP10.0c, saw KFs in KF area, re-ordered FXs, no issue.

Skype me...

Tom

I'm using Vegas 10.0c (64-bit) and Windows 7 (64-bit).
I have tried to reproduce the problem you described and am unable to. All keyframes and adjustments remain when re-ordering the FX chain links on the Event level.
-Dan

No problem here either Grazie.
Pro 10.0c on XP-Pro 32-bit

Mike

John, I said reorder the FX links, not the Events on the timeline. I did re-order the fX links, not the events. My wording was not too accurate, but I actually only had one event on the timeline, and then applied multiple fX to that one event.

Bottom line, it worked fine.

Well, I've just AGAIN reproed it. I move one of the Links and Poof! All ALL my animates drop away, gone. I have to re-animate.

I've sent my Veg to Tom for him to crawl over.

If anybody wants a look at this happening and have a SKYPE account I'll show you.

Grazie

OK!!

Tom and I - Thanks Tom - have got there at last.

For each of my FX Links I had a SINGLE (that's the clue people) KF at ZERO. When I then reorder the Links I get this Animate for all disappear. If I then want to see the Animate t/l again I have to Re-Animate - well, I would wouldn't I: I don't have any animation going on. And THAT was what and am getting. No Animation, no Animate T/L.

Here's the thing: This is NOT what happens in VP9e OR before. You put up an FX and immediately the TR/L appears, even with only 1 KF I can reorder the the FX Links and the T/L wont disappear. And THAT was what I was comparing it to. VP9 holds the TL open regardless - VP10 wont, it will collapse the Animate T/Ls.

Phew . . . Thanks Tom for driving me through the Logic on this. I was going a little bonkers.

So, take note. And actually it's a very useful feature, when I think about it: IF I don't want to animate a Link I don't have too. IF I do it's there.

IF you want to repro what I was getting make some alterations to FXs then delete all KFs that you DON'T want - ie leaving just 1 and then reorder the Links. And that's how you can repro this.

Grazie

Need to add to the above...

IF you move the KF from the event beginning (zero) along the timeline, ie you only have one KF somewhere along the t/l and no KF at the zero position, the animate areas still shut down when re-ordering the FXs.

To keep the animate area(s) open you need two KFs - one the start of the event and one somewhere along the timeline.

Tom

Actually you don't need them on ZERO - I think - you only need to have only KF and not just on ZERO.

I must say I prefer having the visual reference of having ALL the FX Timelines visible - this way you don't have that option anymore.

And NO I hadn't lost settings - only the visual Timelines for the FXs and the then need to Re-Animate.

Grazie

Repeat delete!

Grazie

Nope .. I tested it.

Moving KF from zero to somewhere else, ie only one KF on timeline away from zero, animate area shuts down.

Tom

Thank goodness for Skype.

Bob.

I suspect that there is no "animated" property as such at all.
Clicking the button enables keyframe writing however the display of the keyframe track in the timeline is determined by there being more than one keyframe. This test only runs when the FX sequence is changed. Now I wonder if the same thing happens when the project is saved and reopened.

Bob.

Yes it does.
If there is more than one KF, animate t/l opens when you click on the Fx icon.
Tom

"Yes it does.

Isn't that what I said?
If the track had an "animated" property then the number of keyframes would be irrelevant, once animated = true then it would always display.

Bob.

Bob,
My answer was to your question about save and re-open project.
Tom