Shane Hurlbut on CS5

Dennishh wrote on 11/11/2010, 10:36 AM

What am I missing? Shane Hurlbut is touting Adobe Premier CS5 and says it's color space interpretation of 5D files is superior to anything else for editing. I have tried the CS5 demo head to head with Vegas and think the Vegas files are better, am I missing something.

Comments

farss wrote on 11/11/2010, 11:14 AM

I don't have CS5 however based on my experiences with CS3 I'd say he's correct. CS3 handles color space / level conversion internally whereas in Vegas it's left up to the user to do it manually. It's quite possible what you're seeing in Vegas looks better on a computer monitor due to the illegal levels from the 5D's cRGB color space.

Bob.

Dennishh wrote on 11/11/2010, 11:35 AM

Your probably correct about the illegal levels, because I'm just an amateur when it comes to Video. Where can I find information on level conversions and color space in Vegas?
Thanks,
Dennis

farss wrote on 11/11/2010, 11:50 AM

http://www.glennchan.info/articles/articles.html

Bob.

Dennishh wrote on 11/11/2010, 12:12 PM

Now I understand. I blew right over the section in Vegas Pro Editing book and will now take a closer look at it. Thanks!

ddm wrote on 11/11/2010, 4:28 PM

Shane's just saying that cause he knows Christian Bale is a Vegas Video user.

Dennishh wrote on 11/11/2010, 5:15 PM

I wasn't trying to criticize Shane, I have a great deal of respect for what he is accomplished and his willingness to share his knowledge with us all. I was questioning my experience with the demo CS5 and the way it looked with my files. The answer that I received from Bob made me do a little looking and studying. My review of the Vegas Pro 9 editing workshop book's chapter on color correction was just what I needed. I now appreciate the quality of Vegas tools for color control. One tool that CS5 doesn't have is a histogram, which I missed very much. The color space advantage that Shane talked about with the Canon 5D is pretty much taken care of by my conversion of these files using CineForm Neoscene I think. Another thing I learned from this discussion was the ability to copy to the clipboard an image of the clip you want to color correct to and display it in the preview window, this lets you do very accurate color matching. Without this forum I would've never known about this. Thanks all!

musicvid10 wrote on 11/11/2010, 6:51 PM

" . . . Christian Bale is a Vegas Video user."

Well, that's certainly an endorsement!
Welcome yet another surly, disaffected, contentious, aging former child phenom into our midst . . .

PerroneFord wrote on 11/11/2010, 8:16 PM

No histogram in CS5 eh? I wonder what screen Steve Hullfish was copying from in my book on color correction and grading...

Dennishh wrote on 11/12/2010, 5:05 AM

I could have missed it, but all I could find was scopes and no histogram like Vegas and Photoshop.

David Newman wrote on 11/14/2010, 11:08 AM

While I haven't spoken to Shane directly, a lot of his recent work has been with Bandito Brothers, a long time CineForm house. So it maybe not so much that CS5 has better color space interpretation of 5D than Vegas (although I think I have to agree over the 601 vs 709 issue) but if his he is using CineForm in CS5 (or Vegas) you get better upsampling from the 4:2:0 original.

I just wrote a blog entry that covers this including the CS5 vs Vegas color space issue. [url=http://cineform.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-use-intermediate-for-dslr-video.html]

David Newman
CTO, CineForm
[url=http://twitter.com/David_Newman]

Patryk Rebisz wrote on 11/14/2010, 12:20 PM

David, unless i'm missing something your blog post proves that there is no one answer to everything - the first image shows lesser amount of artifacts with CineForm but 2nd image shows that with that comes also resolution loss so it seems the name of the game is to know the tools and pick which shots should be straight from DSLR and which will gain from CineForm.

Dennishh wrote on 11/14/2010, 12:42 PM

Thanks David for taking the time to explain this in detail. It's amazing how many variables come into play with one question. It would be great if Neo Scene had a noise reduction and levels adjustment built in so so many individual steps were not necessary.

David Newman wrote on 11/14/2010, 1:18 PM

Patryk,

I thought people might fall into that trap. The luma resolution is identical across all three, the chroma aliasing in the Vegas and CS5 native output may look artificially sharper, but are not. If you took any 960x540 image and scaled to HD without advance filters (just line duplication) the jaggies resulting do add perceived sharpness, but it is not a good artifact. This is what Vegas and CS5 are doing in the chroma. The results make it much harder to add sharpness to the native outputs without it looking bad, not so with the CineForm conversion.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm