Subject:BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Posted by: Jace

Date:9/16/2010 7:30:41 PM

UPDATE:
i just discovered the cause of my problem (see below): the length (very very short) of the sample. This is a BUG in Sound Forge 9.0e. i do not know if it's in other versions and i am NOT buying version 10 just to fix THIS if it's fixed in 10 (i doubt it).

The sample info:
Length: 00:00:00:031 (a very short kick drum)
40,000Hz, 16-bit

Original Posting:

i'm trying to adjust the sound of a bass drum sample with EQ (i've tried Paragraphic and Graphic and even VST - nothing processes). The FX and all changes are NOT audible. NONE of the controls do anything to the output. The Preview button plays the bypassed sound only (no, bypass is NOT enabled).

Does anyone else have this problem?

All NON-ASIO driver settings for audio produce the same result. i'm not using ASIO because i'm using another audio app at the same time that uses the ASIO driver (i hate that ASIO driver use is exclusive and i do not have the option of using a different sound card for each app). EDIT: just checked in ASIO mode and it's still the same. WTH is the problem??

System: Sound Forge 9.0e, WinXP SP3, Pentium III 500MHz, 640MB RAM. Sound Blaster Live using the kX Project audio driver (offers far better latency in ASIO).

Subject:RE: BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Reply by: ChristoC

Date:9/16/2010 10:42:09 PM

OK, just for fun I tried the same - with same file length and plugins in SoundForgePro10b (i.e. latest build), with ASIO or WDM drivers.

I can hear the sound, but no change in sound character if I change EQ settings..... however with such a short sound (sub-frame approx 1496 samples long!) I DO NOT EXPECT to hear any change, as, same as you, I used a Bass Drum, where such a short clip represents approx 1 cycle of the fundamental frequency of the instrument, and I cannot imagine the plugin has enough information to actually do something sensible.
I worked out you need the sample sound to be around 3-4 times longer than your "very short Kick Drum" (at typical bass drum frequencies) for any of the EQ plugins to get a grip.....

Subject:RE: BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Reply by: MarkWWW

Date:9/17/2010 6:41:26 AM

One thought - click on the More button at the bottom of the FX window and make sure that the Fade In and Fade Out lengths are set to zero. With a very short sample like you are using even a very quick fade-in/fade-out might add up to longer than the length of the sample you are working on, meaning that you won't hear any sign of the effect. If I remember correctly the default values of the fades are 10ms so if you have left them at the default value it might well account for what you are seeing and interpreting as a bug.

Mark

Subject:RE: BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Reply by: rraud

Date:9/17/2010 8:27:30 AM

I haven't experimented with this issue but an educated guess would be try adjusting the playback buffer.
As for the EQ no working, I agree with Mark on changing the cross-fade slopes to a linear " X ".

Subject:RE: BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Reply by: Jace

Date:9/17/2010 12:36:33 PM

Mark, your idea is definitely worth checking out. thanks very much. if this solves the problem, i'll let you folks know.

Christo, re your comments... the behavior i experience is definitely not ok just because it's such a short sample. i can indeed apply settings and process it and hear the final results. BUT i should be able to preview the changes i'm making without applying them, undoing what i don't like, repeating... etc. i'm not arguing with you, just pointing out that i disagree that it should be acceptable because the sample is so short. i was, for example, trying to cut the upper frequencies on the kick drum so that i'd have only the thicker low frequencies and while i might guess based on knowing frequencies/concepts, a preview is still vital to getting desired results.

one way or the other, bug or unintended behavior... wait, unintended behaviors are bugs. anyway... it should still behave "as expected by the user" and not have to be troubleshot by three people on a forum over the span of ten hours after the initial frustration with the tool ;-)

cheers, folks!

Subject:RE: BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Reply by: ChristoC

Date:9/17/2010 2:56:31 PM

MarkWWW is on the money; I was wrong!

If you navigate to Menu: Options|Preferences|Editing Tab, down near the bottom there's settings for "Default FX crossfade settings" - set both the 'Fade In' and 'Fade Out' parameters to 0.000; then you should have no problem with Preview (works fine with SF10 here) - the problem was your sample is close to the default Fade In/Out times, so you are only hearing a much shorter slice. Sample is 30ms long, and default Fade In/Out set to 10ms each, therefore you only heard FX for 10ms, or one third, of the sample!

Subject:RE: BUG: Preview Will NOT Work on Very Short Samples!

Reply by: Jace

Date:10/16/2010 10:05:16 AM

awesome info! i haven't tested the xfade setting changes yet (been off on other projects and i honestly forgot once i found i could work around it by adding silence to the end of the sample).

i love it when users help users :-) thanks, fellow Sound Forge users!!

i certainly had zero response from Sony support...