Subject:Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Posted by: Holly

Date:9/16/2010 10:39:40 AM

hello all,

i'm new to sf 10b, having only used sf infrequently for general use (file conversions and limiting, actually).

i'm trying to remove vocal artificats (mouth noises) and have been unsuccessful using various settings to remove them via clicks & pops.

i'm looking to remove the artifacts within the musical phrasing itself. the typical recording application involves close-up/condenser or ribbon mic work. fantastic ambiance, but oh so terrific at picking up the dreaded mouth noise.

i've seen it done within a sonogram in the past/unknown program. i took a look at the sonogram feature but didn't see a way to accomplish it there (after giving the de-clicker a few tries).

can someone offer words of wisdom and any steps to try?

thank you!

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: roblesinge

Date:9/16/2010 10:52:52 AM

I don't know of any plug-in that is sensitive enough to remove that kind of variable noise. This is why people like me get paid to remove it manually. I know that doesn't help you, but I literally go through and cut out each occurrence mouth noise, as any kind of broader treatment would negatively effect the rest of the VO.

You could try spectral EQing, but I'm not sure SF10 supports that. Or at least, I haven't played with it, if it does.

Rob
:cool:

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: Holly

Date:9/16/2010 11:46:54 AM

hi rob, thanks very much --

how do you go about cutting out the artifact while leaving the musical note or frequency unchanged?

i am completely willing to do the tedious work involved before submitting my final take to the pros for actual mastering! :)

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: roblesinge

Date:9/16/2010 2:58:17 PM

Holly,

I received your e-mail. What I believe you're referring to is called Spectral Editing. It allows you to see frequencies as colors and thus "paint" out offending frequencies. To my knowledge, SF does not have a spectral editor. I think WaveLab does, I know Audition does. There are a lot of others too.

Are your tracks already mixed, or do you have the vocals on a separate track? If we're talking straight vocals, for most mouth noise, you can zoom in to the exact wavelength containing the click and just cut it out. You have to make sure you take out a complete wavelength each time though (It's difficult to explain without visuals).

If the file is already mixed, you might still be able to zoom in and find the voice click, although it becomes trickier with the other voices behind it. Ideally, this kind of editing would be done solely on the vocal track. SF is extremely powerful for a lot of things, but it is lacking a spectral editor (at least, i haven't found one).

Rob
:cool:

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: Holly

Date:9/16/2010 3:16:18 PM

thank you, rob,

i played with the spectral tool last night but didn't come across an editing tool within that mode.

the vocals are on separate tracks. i've had success zooming in and deleting some of the offenders. (but only the clicks that don't occur during a musical note, i.e. between phrases.)

perhaps i'm not understanding what a complete wavelength is, exactly. if so, there may still be hope that i can use sound forge for this type of grunt work.

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: roblesinge

Date:9/16/2010 3:35:55 PM

If you have the vocal separate, pull only that track into SF and just edit the clicks out of it. I guess I don't understand how you're still hearing music if you are only editing the vocal tracks.

A complete wavelength, loosely described, is the distance over which the shape of the wave repeats. Again, I don't have the benefit of visual aides here, but imagine a wave it goes up over the zero line, comes back down and goes back up again; This is a wavelength. You basically want to make sure the repeating pattern of the waveform is continuous after you make your edit. My e-mail is down right now, but I will attempt to send you a better demonstration via e-mail.

Rob
:cool:

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: MarkWWW

Date:9/17/2010 5:54:24 AM

The best way to avoid this problem is not to have it in the first place. Always use a pop-stopper when recording vocals. Even a home-made one made from a nylon stocking stretched over a wire coathanger can be surprisingly effective, and of course many commercial versions are available.

But if you are trying to remove these artifacts from an already made recording you will, as you indicate, almost certainly nee to do it in the frequency domain. The general feeling hereabouts is that the best software for this available at the moment is iZotope RX. Download the trial version and see if it will solve your problem - I suspect that it will.

But a pop-stopper is much cheaper.

Mark

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: roblesinge

Date:9/17/2010 7:12:43 AM

This is good advice, but a popper stopper isn't going to catch everything. Some mouth noise gets through, as it is more related to spit rolling around in the mouth, as opposed to an explosion of air hitting the mic diaphragm. A popper stopper will help maintain a good distance from the mic though, and that can alleviate some problems.

However, the only non-globally-destructive way to edit this kind of noise is to do it piece by piece on only the vocal track (preferably before mixing).

Rob

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: Steven Myers

Date:9/17/2010 7:37:25 AM

iZotope RX

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: rraud

Date:9/17/2010 8:11:37 AM

Snits, clicks and those type noises can 'sometimes' be fixed via the Replace or Draw tools, if they are of very short duration.Obviously replacing large duration blemishes cannot be corrected on a mixed track.
An isolated dialog track can be corrected in most instances, even replacing entire words or phrases is a frequent practice. (this does not apply to severe distortion)

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: bnjenter

Date:9/17/2010 8:34:12 AM

I agree Izotope's RX is a great application. Along with it, I've used Celemony's Melodyne. I use the Studio version. I'm not sure what other versions accomplish, but I'm pretty sure not of the products work effectively as plugins on the Sony products. It's a little pricey, but it does do the job. Good luck!

Bob

Subject:RE: Removing vocal artifacts (SF10b)

Reply by: Holly

Date:9/17/2010 3:28:13 PM

thanks for your input, everybody. i bit the bullet and ordered another software program.

somehow i have a feeling that this capability will be offered in sf pro 11.

best,
h