PluralEyes & Subclips - no way to group new audio?

stephenv2 wrote on 6/10/2010, 12:13 PM
Okay, unless I'm missing something, if you shoot with a camera that records an audio scratch track (I'm using a 7D) and record audio with a separate recorder (I'm using a H4N), Vegas has no function for allowing you to create a subclip using the new audio, not the scratch track.

I've tried all the usual suspects - groups, deleting audio from video, deleted track, adding H4N as take and deleting scratch, copying and pasting into second Vegas etc. - but the subclip function ALWAYS reverts to media audio.

I can't think of any other function that will allow you on a narrative or doc project to sync up audio and create a nameable clip that can be stored in Project Media and brought onto timeline as needed.

Obviously, using the timeline as a giant bin is a total fail when you have many takes per shot.

Multicam seems ill-suited since most projects are single cam with various numbers of takes per shot.

Something like FCP Multiclip function but Vegas does not appear to have it.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 6/10/2010, 1:04 PM
Mute the original audio, create a sublip with the second audio selected, then delete the original audio from the subclip, and move the second audio up a track.

--or--

After the audio tracks are lined up, mute the original audio, and Render to New Track.
stephenv2 wrote on 6/10/2010, 4:07 PM
Thanks but your first solution does not work - already tried that. If you drag the subclip from project media window, it's the original audio only.

The second method is prohibitive as it doubles the size of you source files - on a feature, that's not close to practical.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/10/2010, 6:48 PM



Works perfectly for me. I wouldn't have posted it if I hadn't tested it. Select the 2nd audio event along with the video when you create the subclip. Using Vegas Pro 8.0c.
vicmilt wrote on 6/10/2010, 7:26 PM
Maybe this is what was already suggested (didn't understand workflow) or maybe it's different - this is easy though.

I take all the "wild sound" (unsynced) and put it on the timeline IN ORDER it was shot (by date/time).
I then render the whole schmazoo to a new WAV track.

That way you've only got ONE AUDIO track with everything on it - in perfect shooting order.

Use that tract for Plural eyes - PE will move all the VIDEO around to match that single track. Everything in order, every time.

v
stephenv2 wrote on 6/10/2010, 7:34 PM
>Works perfectly for me. I wouldn't have posted it if I hadn't tested it. Select the 2nd audio event along with the video when you create the subclip. Using Vegas Pro 8.0c.

I'm using 9.0e, but I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly. I need the "group" to function off the timeline. Your method does allow grouping the audio, but if you delete everything off the timeline and the put the subclip from the project media window BACK on the timeline, it's source audio again, no matter what you did to the clips on the timeline.

Unless you have a way of removing and/or replacing the audio track in the trimmer or project media window.
stephenv2 wrote on 6/10/2010, 7:38 PM
>Use that tract for Plural eyes - PE will move all the VIDEO around to match that single track. Everything in order, every time.

For a very short piece (music video) or other, that would work. But not when shooting a narrative piece where you have many takes of the same moment in time. You need a way

1) Sync recorded audio with camera scratch audio
2) Permanently attach (not just on timeline, but in project media and bin) synced audio to camera file.

That method you outline would only give you timeline sync not project media bin sync.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/10/2010, 8:41 PM
EDIT: New improved video attached.
Are you stating that you cannot do this in 9.0e? If so, it would certainly seem a ripe issue for a service ticket.

[video removed]

In my years of working with multiple camera projects containing up to 9 audio tracks from divergent sources, I have never run into the kinds of workflow roadblocks you report. Maybe you have not been privy to the sage advice from Sony, "Tracks are cheap." This is a smallish example of a portion of a finished "feature" project synced in Pluraleyes.



stephenv2 wrote on 6/11/2010, 10:01 AM
I very much appreciate you taking the time - but I have used Pluraleyes a bunch for music videos and this is not the workflow I'm needing for narrative work.

First, I'm not using loop regions, only selecting events - exactly as you are doing.

Second , I can't tell if in your screen capture if the first and second track are created from a single AVI file - i.e. audio is embedded/interleaved in the process. However, following your steps exactly (which I had done before does not result in the same behavior. I have no way to test 8.0c, so not sure if behavior has changes. Finally, the part that I really talking about is beyond what you've shown. Once I created the subclip, I want a single item in the project media bin that contains the video file without the embedded audio but with the double system sound recorded audio.

So even if I delete every track and every event, I can go back to the bin and drag out "Scene 1, Shot 1, Take 1" and get just the the video file without the embedded audio but with the double system sound recorded audio.

Third - I'm well aware that Vegas handles plenty of tracks and I use them. But for narrative work, you don't want to sort/bin on the timeline. For a two hour feature this would be a disaster of infinite proportions.
stephenv2 wrote on 6/11/2010, 10:11 AM
PS. The audio on Youtube was not working when I first looked at it - it is now.

So I see what you are doing - Vegas creates two subclips - one for audio, one for video. You must manually select them in the project media window. Vegas 9 (and I'm assuming 8 does as well) does not make a sublip that combines the two selections. There is no way I see (other than rendering) to make the association permanent.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/11/2010, 10:20 AM
I see what you mean about two subclips.
I can appreciate what you want. Maybe a script? As I stated way back, I would do a quick render.
That being said, I don't need something like this a lot in my workflow, even if the original camera audio never gets used. All the best.
stephenv2 wrote on 6/11/2010, 12:33 PM
I've search around for scripts but not found any - and it's only now with long form projects that this limitation is rearing it's head. My previous longform were done with camera recorded audio and subclips work great.

And thanks again for all the help.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/21/2010, 5:35 PM
Just wanted you to know I hadn't forgotten about your issue, especially when I ran across this. Looks like it might do just what you are looking for (I won't be able to test it just yet).
http://dawf.codeplex.com/documentation
stephenv2 wrote on 2/22/2011, 2:16 PM
BTW - Update. Dawf works pretty well although not updated in a while. Would like to see this built into Vegas and/or pluraleyes.