Subject:Midi tracks not rendering properly or not at all

Posted by: Faith Granger

Date:5/30/2010 4:48:28 PM

I am doing good progress on my scoring this week-end. But there are a few bugs that I can't figure out: Has to do with MIDI tracks. Using East West Gold Orchestra - PLAY.

PROBLEMS:

1- A track might play back fine, with right instrument, but when I render it to a wav file it either comes out with a different instrument OR it comes out silent. Same results whether I render to a new track or render project out. (FILE / RENDER AS). Yes the MASTER out has good signal and if I render an audio track of the same timeline, same settings, it comes out fine. Also Some midi tracks render OK, some don't (???)

When I listen to my ACID project, everything is playing back OK, even after the render (which arbitrarily changed the midi sounds) is done. On the timeline everything is OK doki :)

2- I am noticing weirdness with the volume envelope curves of midi tracks. Not always possible to fade in or out, tracks goes from mute to present, without smooth transition. Some Cymballs cannot be faded out, they continue to ring even if your volume curve now says ZERO db. (???). Also some midi tracks, with volume curve dragged all the way down to the bottom can still be heard (faintly, but they are there). It appears the bottom is NOT ZERO db. WHY?? Can one not use regular Volume Envelope curves with midi tracks? In many cases they work ok, in others they don't (sigh)

2- Also I don't see a way to insert an effect to a midi track. I am assuming if I want to add reverb to my harp I will have to render it as an audio track. I'm OK with that, but since the render is not working (see problem #1) I am in a bit of a pickle here ;).

Can anyone help me solve these bugs so I can resume work on my film? (You can check out the film here btw: http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Deuce_of_Spades/70122712?trkid=191776 )

Overall LOVE ACID. I am so not going back to Cubase it's not even funny. Thank you for any help :)

Subject:RE: Midi tracks not rendering properly or not at all

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:5/31/2010 8:57:08 AM

> 1- A track might play back fine, with right instrument, but when I render it to a wav file it either comes out with a different instrument OR it comes out silent. Same results whether I render to a new track or render project out. (FILE / RENDER AS). Yes the MASTER out has good signal and if I render an audio track of the same timeline, same settings, it comes out fine. Also Some midi tracks render OK, some don't (???)

I'm not sure what's happening here and without know what VSTi's you are using it's hard to say. VSTi's should not be changing programs unless they are sent program change messages. Are you importing MIDI tracks from somewhere else that might contain program changes or are you recording them all yourself?

> 2- I am noticing weirdness with the volume envelope curves of midi tracks. Not always possible to fade in or out, tracks goes from mute to present, without smooth transition. Some Cymballs cannot be faded out, they continue to ring even if your volume curve now says ZERO db. (???). Also some midi tracks, with volume curve dragged all the way down to the bottom can still be heard (faintly, but they are there). It appears the bottom is NOT ZERO db. WHY?? Can one not use regular Volume Envelope curves with midi tracks? In many cases they work ok, in others they don't (sigh)

MIDI volume envelopes are not what you think. They are the equivalent of playing softer but it's not really attenuating the audio. You want to add the volume envelopes to the VSTi bus. This will attenuate the audio like you expect. Press the B keep to reveal the bus tracks.

> 2- Also I don't see a way to insert an effect to a midi track. I am assuming if I want to add reverb to my harp I will have to render it as an audio track. I'm OK with that, but since the render is not working (see problem #1) I am in a bit of a pickle here ;).

Once again, MIDI data is just note on, note off, and duration. It is not audio data. You want to add the FX to the VSTi bus that's created.

~jr

Subject:RE: Midi tracks not rendering properly or not at all

Reply by: Faith Granger

Date:5/31/2010 10:51:11 AM

No I recorded the midi tracks myself, using one soft synth (East West Gold Orchestral - PLAY). I only have one instance of it open and 3 instruments, each on it's own midi channel. Each of the midi tracks is assigned that same midi channel of course. So logically everything should work fine. As I said they play fine, before and after "render" but when they render, they render out wrong. This is very weird.

Question about your midi volume curve advice:

if I have 3 instruments out of ONE instance of East West, ACid is giving me ONE bus track for that Sof Synth. But what if I want to do different volume curves for each of these 3 instruments? Short of rendering them as audio files, what's the best way to approach this? Use 3 instances of EW (East West) instead (so basically create 3 soft synth with the same EW PLAY ?)

ALSO:

When "rendering to a new track" in SONY Vegas (video editing I use) , it automatically throws the resulting file on a track, perfecltly lined up with the tracks it rendered in the selection area.

in ACID however this is not the case. It does not put the rendered file in a new track: I have to use the pencil or brush tool to "draw the file back onto the timeline and it never comes out aligned. When drawing it from right to left it ends up shorter than the original file, forcing me to then extend the left end a bit more until it seems to be the right size. I then have to manually try to slide it back inside the area selected for render (left andf right locators). What a PITA !! What is the proper and easiest way to get this done?

Thank you Johnny :) (Johnny, that's the name of the hero in my film btw :) ).

PS: I emailed you yesterday did you get my email? Sent you my contact info and an offer for a quick job :)

Subject:RE: Midi tracks not rendering properly or not at all

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:5/31/2010 7:30:08 PM

> Each of the midi tracks is assigned that same midi channel of course. So logically everything should work fine.

I've never used East West Gold Orchestral - PLAY but normally each MIDI track should be assigned to a different MIDI channel and then each instrument in the VSTi would be assigned to listen to a different MIDI channel. At least this is how it works with the samplers that I use like Kontakt & SampleTank.

> if I have 3 instruments out of ONE instance of East West, ACid is giving me ONE bus track for that Sof Synth. But what if I want to do different volume curves for each of these 3 instruments?

Usually, multi-timbral instrument have more than just one bus but you have to enable them. For example, Kontakt defaults to just one stereo bus but you can turn on up to 8 stereo (or 16 mono) buses. The way you do this is different for each VSTi so I have no idea how you would turn this on in East West. For now, I would just insert 3 instances of East West and route one track to each via it's own MIDI channel.

> When "rendering to a new track" in SONY Vegas (video editing I use) , it automatically throws the resulting file on a track, perfecltly lined up with the tracks it rendered in the selection area. in ACID however this is not the case. It does not put the rendered file in a new track: I have to use the pencil or brush tool to "draw the file back onto the timeline and it never comes out aligned

Yea, this can be annoying and confusing to non-ACID users. Here is the trick: take the paint brush (not the pencil) and Ctrl+Click the track and the entire clip will be painted with just one click (while holding the Ctrl key)

> PS: I emailed you yesterday did you get my email? Sent you my contact info and an offer for a quick job :)

I did not get an email from you yesterday (30th) but I did get one on Saturday (29th) and I replied yesterday (Sunday 30th) but you did not reply back. Did you get my email? (I will send it again just in case)

~jr