Subject:Acid 7 External Hdwr Control is LAGGING badly
Posted by: Tom B
Date:3/19/2010 1:12:30 PM
I'm using Acid Pro 7 on a Win XP pro system with USB 2.O. Recently I purchased a Korg nanoKONTROL midi control surface (9 faders, 9 knobs, 18 buttons x 4 scenes).
In mapping nK controllers to various Acid operations, they all work but there is a BIG lag time between rotating a hardware knob and seeing the corresponding Acid 7 response. This seems to indicate a serious slow-down in Acid's implementation of Control Change (CC) messages.
This is particulaly *maddening* when attempting to adjust track volume faders, pan faders, etc.
This problem originates in Acid 7, and not in the hardware controller. Korg nanoKONTROL provides *instantaneous* control in other programs such as Native Instruments Kore2, for example.
I'm certain Acid 7 is the problem:
Prior to buying the nanoKONTROL, I used my Korg padKONTROL (drum pads unit) to control Acid track functions. The pK is fully capable as its pads send Midi Note data or CC# information, and it's knobs send *variable* CC# (values 0-127). The pK pads worked well as *buttons* (ON/OFF for Arm Record, Pause, Metronome On, etc), but assigning *knobs* (variable CC#s) to faders of any kind caused the following problem:
Example PAN: Gradually turn hardware knob to the left. Nothing happens in Acid, and then suddenly the Acid fader *jumps* to 100% LEFT. Turning the hdwr knob right jumps the pan fader 100% RIGHT. The same occurs in all such operations - volume faders, effects and buss sends, etc.
QUESTION: Is there a SETTING CHANGE that will provide instantaneous hardware control, as is available in other professional-level music production programs?
My templates are built on the "Generic Control" device model, and I have already tried turning off "Smooth and thin automation data", which does not help. My Korg drivers are the latest and my Acid version is 7e (build 713). My hardware controller goes straight into the computer's hardware port, no USB router of any kind.
Message last edited on3/23/2010 9:39:14 AM byTom B.
Subject:Also posted on KorgForums.com
Date:3/20/2010 10:00:32 AM
In the interest of finding a quick and comprehensive solution, I posted a similar inquiry on the Korg user forum at this URL:
I'm hoping that between Sony and Korg--providers of the two involved components--one or the other will provide a solid solution that benefits all concerned.
I've posted an Inquiry with Sony Email Tech Support as well, referencing this thread. External MIDI control is an exploding market issue, so I hope Sony will address this immediately.
Subject:RE: Acid 7 External Hdwr Control is LAGGING badly
Date:3/22/2010 10:44:03 AM
Is this something to do with the drivers maybe? I have a nanoPAD and don't have any problems with its controls. (I even tried the nanoPAD's X-Y pad with Native Instruments' Kore Player in ACID Pro 7 and it works fine.)
I have an M-Audio Oxygen8 v2 and that works fine as a control surface in ACID Pro 7 too. (For example, I set up one of its knobs for panning and can incrementally pan no problem as fast or as slow as I want; no jumps or anything.)
Subject:Tell me more
Date:3/23/2010 8:17:32 AM
Thanks for the reply, lacobus (I wonder where the Moderator is).
I have the latest Korg nanoKontrol drivers installed.
Your positive report re the nanoPAD X/Y feature seems related to *Kore2 Player* automation, rather than Acid's automation. As stated above, my experience is that Kore2 responds instantly to nanoKONTROL - whether buttons or knobs/pots.
On the other hand, Acid seems to choke on *variable* CC# values (0-127) as in the case of faders, knobs and controls other than ON/OFF buttons. Except for its X/Y feature, the Korg nanoPAD is a drum trigger controller whose pads can send Midi Note or CC# data limited to "button" functions. On and Off, but no *variable* CC# data as for controlling sliding faders and rotating knobs.
M-Audio Oxygen8 QUESTION:
Specifically, are you panning *an Acid Pro 7 track* without problems, or are you panning within Kore or some other VST *plugged into* your Acid 7 project?
Try assigning 4 of your Oxy8 knobs to Pan Acid 7 channels 1, 2, 3, 4 (Acid 7 External Control interface > Audio Channels). Do all 4 *Acid Pan faders* operate without lagging? I'll bet not. Please advise.
Message last edited on3/23/2010 9:44:17 AM byTom B.
Subject:RE: Tell me more
Date:3/24/2010 10:44:21 AM
Tom B said:
"M-Audio Oxygen8 QUESTION:
Specifically, are you panning *an Acid Pro 7 track* without problems..?"
Yes, I'm controlling the panning at the track level (in the track list) with my Oxygen8's assignable knobs. I set up my Oxygen8 as a generic controller within Options > Preferences > External Control & Automation and had ACID "learn" the knobs I wanted to use for panning tracks 1 through 4.
I then clicked Options > External Control to enable it and I fired away. I tried this with a (somewhat busy) project running as well with no problems. I even tried turning the knobs as fast as I could simultaneously. No problems.
Just for giggles, I tried using the nanoPAD's X-Y pad to control panning on track 1. It worked pretty well with the exception that I had to go into the KORG Kontrol Editor to shut control changes for the Y axis off. For some reason it was still listening on the Y axis and jumping all over the place when I'd run my finger along the pad even slightly along the Y axis. Maybe something similar is happening with the nanoKONTROL?
On Edit: This is a user community for the most part. From time to time the Sony Creative peeps drop in and try to help when they can but it in no way means they're going to answer each and every issue.
Message last edited on3/24/2010 11:08:40 AM byIacobus.
Date:3/26/2010 2:40:34 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm surprised you have *instantaneous* control from Oxy8 knobs. I wonder what the hangup is for Korg nano knobs...
I understand youir issue where Korg X/Y attempts to insert 'Y' info. But please clarify: When you shut down the Y axis in the nano Editor, did you *continue to see* Y-related interference when attempting to pan in Acid? Or were you able to pan Acid Track 1 *smoothly and instantaneously* after turning OFF the nanoPAD's Y information?
I appreciate the X/Y suggestion, but the nanoKONTROL faders and knobs are not transmitting in two axes, so I doubt that could be a factor in my dilemma...
Thanks for clarification re moderator involvement here. This is a pretty important issue, and one that's likely to grow in importance with more and more MIDI control options in the market place. I hope Peter or whomever will jump in, even if only to say this is a known issue and will soon to be corrected...
Message last edited on3/26/2010 3:31:06 PM byTom B.
Subject:RE: Very frustrating
Date:3/29/2010 11:57:25 AM
Oh, sorry. Yes, I had no problems with the nanoPAD's X-Y pad after turning the Y axis off to control panning.
I suggested looking into the Korg Kontrol Editor mostly because there might be something there that's not jiving with ACID (like I had to turn off the Y axis through the Korg Kontrol Editor).
Did you try going through the proper motions to set up the nanoKONTROL as a control surface in ACID (under Options > Preferences > External Control & Automation)? When you assign or make ACID "learn" a knob, is the CC number consistent?
Subject:Maybe just a case of Not Enough Gun
Date:3/30/2010 11:52:52 AM
Sorry to be so late in responding. There seems to be no email notification from this forum, so I forget to check back.
Thanks, yes, I installed nanoKONTROL and padKONTROL "by the numbers". Acid sees it/them very well.
Been discussing this with Sony via TechSupp inquiry. So far, they had me turn off all my hidden Startup junk (which did help some, but I need most of that junk running).
It *seems* as if a new multicore PC with 4GB of ram might solve my problem. I've asked the Sony rep for a *solid* answer as to whether this external-MIDI-hardware-control time lag is being reported by other users who have newer, more capabable computers. If they are *not* having the problem, it would seem to indicate a need for me to build newer hardware...
Would you be so kind as to indicate what processor and amount of RAM your system is running? You report *instantaneous response* from your Oxygen8 knobs, and maybe having faster hardware is the simple reason for your success...
My CPU is a single-core Pentium 4 (excellent, but five years old now) and 1 GB of ram.
Message last edited on3/30/2010 4:34:45 PM byTom B.
Subject:RE: Maybe just a case of Not Enough Gun
Date:3/31/2010 9:43:33 AM
I have a Core i7 965 (2.67 GHz); 6 GB of RAM. Things are pretty much as lean and mean as SysTray apps and the like goes.
Still, I would think that your system would be able to handle the transmission of data just fine. Any chance you can get your hands on another MIDI controller of some sort just to see if there's any difference?
Subject:3rd World Computing, so to speak
Date:4/1/2010 8:10:49 AM
Thanks for the system information. Yeah, you're a "Modern User" for sure <grin>. I must figure out how to pare down the Startup JUNK in my next PC. It will be used for Audio and Video Editing only, and my current P4 XP machine will be relegated to internet, graphics and general computing.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I have no opportunity to swap in another MIDI controller. I'm satisfied the Korg nanoK and padK are okay though, because they both control the knobs in NI Kore 2 (free trial download) instantaneously.
Kore 2 is a resource hog, but I would think it requires far fewer resources (and a different emphasis) than does a multi-track Acid 7 session. Any thoughts?
I purchased and just received NI Komplete6. I'm reluctant to install on such a dated/minimal system, but probably will (latent masochism lol). BEST PRICE is via NovaMusik.com. Speak with Eric and ask what their Special Price is. You might be surprised...
Subject:RE: 3rd World Computing, so to speak
Date:4/1/2010 10:02:32 AM
Maybe something's just not jiving with ACID and your video card's driver? I've seen issues in the past between ACID and certain video card vendors that was solved by drivers.
Subject:RE: 3rd World Computing, so to speak
Date:4/1/2010 1:21:52 PM
Another excellent insight. I've looked into updating my display card driver. It's an NVIDIA Ti 4200 and I already have the 'most recent' driver, dated 10/22/06...ugh.
I can't think of any other options for working around a display adapter problem, if that really is the issue.
Do you know of any "Approved List" for video cards, for when I build my next PC?
Subject:RE: 3rd World Computing, so to speak
Date:4/5/2010 10:18:44 AM
I know that any recent or latest video card should work with ACID just fine. (The problem I mentioned I believe occurred a couple of versions ago; I thought it was just worth mentioning if you have an older system.)
In the meantime, you can try disabling video acceleration notch-by-notch. I believe this was done in XP by right-clicking a blank area on your Desktop > Properties and then choosing Settings. You should see some options here including an "advanced" button. I believe the option to lower or disable acceleration was under the "troubleshoot" tab.