New Sony XDCAM - "Phase 4" at NAB?

cliff_622 wrote on 3/7/2010, 1:57 PM
As many of you know, Sony is openly working on a new "phase4" installment. The rumors are that it will implement a "new" compression scheme. (not MPEG2 based?)

I strongly suspect the details will be announced at next month's NAB.

Can anybody confirm this?

Also, you can bet that SCS got a "heads-up" on the product,...is it possible that they will announce Vegas9d support for it in coordination with XDCAM "phase 4" rollout?

If I were a betting man, I'd say do.

My guess is; Vegas 9d (or V10 announcement) gets XDCAM "phase 4" and wider AVCHD support to match NXCAM,

It seems that Vegas supports the exact specs that Sony camera's get. (maybe SCS is riding off "big" Sony's MPEG licensing contracts?)

Anybody know?

Is this a terrible guess that is way out there in left field?

CT : - )

Comments

ushere wrote on 3/7/2010, 11:02 PM
what were phase 1, 2 and 3?

and, before phase four, it'd be nice if all the other phases, not to mention formats (;-)) ran smoothly in vegas.

it's not that i'm against progress per se, but, given what's happening recently with vegas it seems we're up and running before we can even walk.

i'm not likely to desert ship, vegas is, certainly compared to the other systems i've worked with / on, far and away the best for getting things done, however, it's stability and reliability have slipped over the last few releases at the expense of incorporating newer formats. not that i particularly would want vegas to transcode my input into it's own codec, al la avid, fcp, but there is something to be said for the stability and reliability this offers the professional editor.

i have what's crossable crossed that 9d addresses the known problems first and foremost BEFORE rushing to incorporate another format (phase 4?) and perhaps adding yet another layer of potential problems.....

leslie

It seems that Vegas supports the exact specs that Sony camera's get. (maybe SCS is riding off "big" Sony's MPEG licensing contracts?)

if only that were true we probably WOULDN'T have all the avchd problems that crop up here...
cliff_622 wrote on 3/8/2010, 5:21 PM
I cant outline the phases exactly. It's something roughly like;

1) XDCAM HD
2.) XDCAM EX
3.) XDCAM 422
4.) XDCAM - some compression rumored to be totally brand new?

Remember SCS MUST implement full support for ALL Sony cameras.

So,....yeah, it's DEFINITELY coming on a future version of Vegas. (maybe next month?)

CT
cliff_622 wrote on 3/11/2010, 8:02 AM
I figured I'd shamelessly bump this back up.

Anybody have any info or even a dreaded "rumor" or two to add?

NAB is closing in!

CT : - )
John_Cline wrote on 3/11/2010, 9:11 AM
As Spot is fond of saying, "Those that know aren't talking and those that are talking don't know."
apit34356 wrote on 3/11/2010, 10:08 AM
"Those that know aren't talking and those that are talking don't know." Sounds like a line from a cheesy Mafia flick...... ;-) Darn those NDA's, of course, if your really desperate to know, most mags and marketing agencies that buy media time and print ads have this info usually minimum of 45-60 days ahead of release date. Go sweet talk the staff... ;-) But marketing loves the slow dripping water torture (rumors) of its customers to boost product interest............
cliff_622 wrote on 3/11/2010, 5:06 PM
It's a foregone conclusion that Vegas WILL support this at some point. I'm certain that "big" Sony has made SCS aware of the new XDCAM specs. It's also safe to say that "big" Sony wants ALL NLE's supporting it. (even SCS competitors)

So,...this rumor is nothing that Adobe will find shocking or extra helpful. (they will also quickly benefit from it as well anyway)

The only question is; Will Sony announce the new XDCAM this year at NAB?

I have to strongly suspect so,...it's the most premiere time to do it! I think the only thing that would stop it is if somehow it wasn't ready yet. If that was the case, it would be a huge shame to have it pass-by the most important event of the year.

It all seems at least a very "logical" guess.

CT
farss wrote on 3/12/2010, 1:40 AM
"Remember SCS MUST implement full support for ALL Sony cameras."

How can you say that?

Never supported Sony's old PDX10, still barely support XDCAM EX, better support for RED. The latter from a company whose original mission statement was "Get Sony" . Sony switched from a MXF wrapper to mp4 for their new EX line at Adobe's request.
Avid and Sony are far closer than Sony and SCS.
Last Sony roadshow I was at the presenter was bewildered when he saw Vegas in his PPT. At the same roadshow Avid, FCP and Edius was on show working with all the Sony cameras. Vegas was absent.

As for "Phase 4", I suspect it will be further migration of their high end HD cameras from optical to SxS storage. This has been a long term stratergy of Sony's. XDCAM Optical was always a transition format targetting users who were nervous about going tapeless. No great secret, Sony show PPTs outlining this grand plan.
Maybe we'll see a XDCAM EX camera recording 50Mbps 4:2:2. It would explain the so far unused high write speed of SxS media. It should work in Vegas with no new code.

Bob.
cliff_622 wrote on 3/12/2010, 10:40 PM
"Remember SCS MUST implement full support for ALL Sony cameras."

My thinking here is SCS support for modern Sony Camera's like NXCAM and HDCAM phase 4.

Nothing wrong with SCS supporting RED,...I dont think anybody would blame them for supporting Sony Camera competitors. I'm sure SCS will support Canon's new 4:2:2 as well...which is prolly identical to Sony's 4:2:2??

Hell, maybe Sony will sell Canon the codec board like they do for Convergent Design?

I'm really curious if Phase 4 is MPEG2 long GOP variation??

CT
apit34356 wrote on 3/12/2010, 10:53 PM
"I'm really curious if Phase 4 is MPEG2 long GOP variation??" Today, "connections" can handle a lot more bandwidth. Sony could be adding USB3, Firewire800, Sata port,....etc
farss wrote on 3/12/2010, 11:27 PM
"I'm really curious if Phase 4 is MPEG2 long GOP variation??"

Why would they vary it?

It's been working just fine for them so far in both 4:2:0 and 4:2:2.
The most common complaint about Sony has been their plethora of tape formats:
DV, DVCAM, Betacam, Betacam SP, Betacam SX, Betacam IMX, Digital Betacam, HDV, HDCAM and HDCAM SR.
They're they ones I've run into! Sony do not need to continue the level of problems they created in the past by using anymore codecs than they absolutely need to.

The SxS card has been a huge success for Sony. Not least because you can elect to use uber cheap SDHC cards. The latest firmware updates for the EX cameras gives the official nod from Sony to their use. JVC ( a Panasonic company) support it as well. Hopefully Canon and Panasonic will come on board, it's not Sony proprietary so anyone can use it in their cameras.

Bob.
cliff_622 wrote on 4/2/2010, 8:26 AM
Pulled this from a Sony Broadcast group technical .pdf today.

"Sony B&P is developing a highly complex IC which will implement AVC Long & Intra GoP to be deployed in future products, handling 1080 50p/60p signals for a variety of mastering, and …eventually mainstream HD production applications. Sony’s new device will be able to flexibly switch between Intra-only or full capabilities of Long GoP depending on the application and compression conditions at hand."

Notice the 60p terms. is it safe to say that the next XDCAM phase will include 60 progressive frames in a AVC long GOP scheme? (and possible Intra-scheme?)

I have heard no "noise" on this being announced at NAB 2010. If it is, than it's being very closely guarded. (so far)

The suspense is killing me! lol

I suspect 100mb XDCAM 422, 60P will be anounced at NAB?

CT
Coursedesign wrote on 4/2/2010, 9:02 AM
"Remember SCS MUST implement full support for ALL Sony cameras."

Really? I recall seeing Sonic Foundry's engineering chief carrying a PDX10 around everywhere.

Maybe he used another NLE for himself?
jwcarney wrote on 4/2/2010, 12:20 PM
>>JVC ( a Panasonic company) support it as well. Hopefully Canon and Panasonic will come on board, it's not Sony proprietary so anyone can use it in their cameras.<<

JVC used to be owned by Matsushita, which owns Panasonic. JVC is now owned by Kenwood.
farss wrote on 4/2/2010, 2:22 PM
Yes, really.
The PDX10 was a rare camera that flagged the audio as dual mono.
Vidcap had issues with that and the "fix" was to use SCLive.
The PDX10 was also one of the very few affordable standard def cameras that shot 16:9. Unfortunately it was nothing like the PD150/170 in low light and never really took off.

Bob.