Interesting, thanks for sharing. 35 days and counting for 9d!

"enhancements that will be available in the Vegas Pro 9.0d software update coming soon."

Actually, not sure this limits the release to NAB. Perhaps it could be sooner.

"3D"? Wouldn't it be better to get 2D working reliably first?

There are too many unknowns in a mag article to place high expectations on this report. Usually, companies assign a public information officer to interface with the media. That person may or may not be totally familiar with the subject.

By the time it makes it though the company chain, then gets told to the reporter, then gets through the editor, there is plenty of room for misconceptions/errors to creep in.

drmathprog, the 3D is for their high end Blu print authoring system

We may not want to jump to conclusion based on an article appearing on a Mag.

Besides, "...including a first look at new features and enhancements that will be available in the Vegas Pro 9.0d software update coming soon..." is somewhat vague. It certainly can mean NAB goers will have a first look at features that are ready for release at the time of NAB. But it can also mean NAB goers can have a look at features that are coming soon after NAB.

"... once per month on bugs you are aware of, what you are working on, and what future enhancments are on the table? We are the people sending you money..."

May worth a try but I wouldn't use that tone. It sounds a bit like venture capitalists demanding to know the progress of the project they invested in. Or a big boss demanding a monthly progress report. Sony does not necessarily want its competitors to know what it is working on.

Just my 2 cents

BBTB

While I agree about not tipping their hand about future enhancements, a bug report would be MOST welcome. Or at least some acknowledgment that they are aware of issues people are having. Is that really too much?

And we DO have an investment here. Even though our "stake" in the company is small, sometimes our work is not. I suspect many of us have our jobs riding on the work we produce and the stakes are high for us, if not for SCS.

I must heartily concurr with the suggestion that it may be far more important to us loyal Vegas users for the new Vegas Pro upgrade to solve the innumerable bugs it has, specially the latest builds.
Many (at least a few of mine) are acknowledged by Sony Support but all the feedback received from them is : "it is in the acknowledged bug list". We have some workarounds but no root solutions.

The situation is even more troublesome when we include the companion package DVD Arquitect 5. This program has many collisions with other hardware and system configurations such that it is impossible, for many, to Make DVD's at one pass or operate with active Blueray players and burners. Just browse the many threads complaining about this situation.

Since Sony Support does not come up with prompt, workable solutions, one has to browse the Vegas and Architect forums hoping someone has found, if not a root solution, at least a suitable workaround. After that it is a matter of sharing.

Maybe 3D and other "enhancements" will be nice, but if the root problems are not fixed, the upgrade may be worthless.

Have you seen what happened to Premiere Elements 8 ????? Go to Amazon and read the 95% rejection of the program with a rating of 1 out of 5 and returns galore. It is rated as the worst program update ever ....

So, Sony: do not emulate other, even lowly program updates. Fix, do not add just bells.

Imho, I'd say the suggestion that Sony give us a monthly brief on known issues, and link to their knowledge base to possible workarounds is a good one.

Also a 1 month open beta before updates and 2-3 months on new versions (with a monthly beta build, or more) would be a good idea, the beta being what they in the past have been releasing. Yes it'll add time to the release cycle, but it will also locate most of the worst issues, and calling it a beta will probably keep people from installing it on their production environment, and use it on time critical tasks.

Personally, I agree with SCS's extremely tight lipped approach to new releases and bug fixes.

With corporate spying the way that it is today? Imagine if Sony just blurted out that "yes,...we are fixing issue xyz on the next release"

People!,...you gotta remember that we are NOT the only people that read these forums. I guarantee that Adobe developers are reading every post here too. I mean,...imagine if they found out about a future bug fix before it was ready to be released? Adobe "thinks" that SCS isn't working on these issues and that gives SCS a strategic advantage....(because that gives Adobe a FALSE sense that they have an "upper hand" over SCS on something)

See?... When a "surprise" fix is finally announced...Adobe Execs and coders freak out in shock,...they then scramble and fumble around in total confusion in their meeting rooms (exactly what SCS wants them to do)

How about new features? My God,...could you imagine if Adobe found out that the next release of Vegas will contain an "NXCAM" (21/24mbps) AVCHD rendering option!!

As you can see, this type of information is too dangerous to be released days or weeks before it's ready.

Again, I stand with SCS's intensely secretive communication policies. It might be bad for us but it's something that can save a company's life in this day and age.

Guys,...you all gotta start thinking "strategic"....the way SCS does.

CT : - )

Seriously, no one at Adobe is going to freak if SCS suddenly fixes something. I've met some of the development team and it's obvious they've got plenty to do without keeping a close eye on Vegas.

However, I'd be surprised if SCS opened their kimonos to customers. It's one thing to say Adobe might not care, another to pretend that SCS wouldn't care about their own disclosures.

Even so, I'd say that if SCS is going to make a press release it'd be great PR to send it to their customer base at the same time.

Rob Mack

No no no,...loose lips sink ships!! (SCS is fully aware of this)

Complete stealth and TOTAL communications secrecy is extremely vital to SCS's survival!

Vegas user base MUST NOT KNOW anything before it is properly announced. Why do we "need" to know?...we are only the paying fans of the software. No big deal....what are we going to do?...leave? Hahaha,...no, we love Vegas too much for that. (and SCS knows it)

This is the way it has always been...why change that now?

CT : - )

Understandably, Sony is too busy worrying about suspending members, that they don't have the time to inform us of product updates.

At the end of last month (midnight 28 Feb 2010) every original design PS3 (not the new "slim" models) began having a catastrophic failure running any game that required access to the Playstation Network. What happened was the chip that retains date/time had incorrect microcode that made it think 2010 was a leap year. So when it tried to synch date/time with the Playstation network servers it could not do that. So the PS3 gave an obscure error message and shut the game down.

This affected literally millions of users around the world. The problem started at 00:00:00 GMT on 01 Mar 2010 and clobbered all PS3's in each time zone as their local time approached midnight. Fortunately the problem fixed itself at 00:00:00 GMT 02 Mar 2010. The reason for this was never made clear.

During the entire day of 01 Mar 2010 there were literally thousands of forum posts and calls to Sony. The only information Sony provided was "We are aware of the problem and working on a fix."

My take on this is that although we might not like the amount of information Sony provides about Vegas, we should try to accept it, because it is not likely to change.

If anyone is aware of any company who publishes a comprehensive list of bugs about their software with a timetable to fix them, please send it to Sony. That may help to convince Sony to do the same. I have used many apps over many years and I am not aware of any one doing that.

What purpose does releasing such a list serve? To give competitors marketing ammunition, and to provoke its own users to start fighting whose bug(s) get to be fixed first? And every time a bug fix is somehow behind schedule then start a fresh round of fight?

I don't work for Sony, but let me say this: some of the expectations here are neither realistic nor reasonable. We are customers and any good company will do what they can to keep customers happy. However, asking a company to release operation information is not a reasonable request.

Another thing to remember is that we, or a few dozens of us, are not the only customers. We may be the loudest simply because we decide to post in a user forum :-). I would imagine Sony needs to cater to other customers, too, and maybe also have to think about how to attract future customers (increase market share).

"If anyone is aware of any company who publishes a comprehensive list of bugs about their software with a timetable to fix them, please send it to Sony. That may help to convince Sony to do the same. I have used many apps over many years and I am not aware of any one doing that"

Microsoft. Probably well over 100,000 entries in the knowledgebase.
As SCS are very Mircrosoft centric I'd sincerely doubt they are not aware of this.

"What purpose of releasing such a list serve? To give competitors marketing ammunition, and to provoke its own users to start fighting whose bug(s) get to be fixed first? And every time a bug fix is somehow behind schedule then start a fresh round of fight?"

I doubt the competitors would be bothered, they to some extent have the market carved up and do not compete head to head.

The purpose it serves is it saves users countless wasted hours trying to figure out what is going on. It saves the supplier countless hours and money in support calls.
I'd also point out that the release notes do from time to time include known unresolved bugs. The limitation is this is a static list, the users don't know what new bugs have been found since the release. A scheduled release date for a fix isn't so much needed, that can place unrealistic pressure on project managers and as you say could lead to a bit of user fighting. Simply knowing that the problem you are struggling with is known about, might be resolved at some time in the future etc saves time and money both for the supplier and the customer.


Bob.

Cliff, I think you're dead wrong with the notion that SCS should be tight lipped.

I use VideoRedo TVSuite to edit TV shows (mpeg files) from my TiVo. Their developers are very active on their forum and are very open about bugs,fixes and what they're working on to improve their products. If you read through their forum threads you'd see that it helps create customer satisfaction and loyalty. If anything, it helps sell their products because of their openness.

They totally put SCS to shame with regard to forum activity. SCS could learn something by following VRD's example.

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/index.php

We can use Convergent Design as another shining example. Their open policy on their development should be a model for the industry. Even with their present issues, they are shipping as many units as they can assemble. Any units with issues that have been resolved in later iterations are retrofitted for free. All software bugs are disclosed, and rough timetables given for both bug fixes and future releases.

They have the best product in the market at the best price, and they have a loyal and devoted following because of it. Two years ago they were unheard of. Last month they shipped their 1,000 unit.

RED, though they have their issues with shipping dates of hardware has been absolutely open about firmware releases, bug fixes, and so forth. They are trying to compete against the heavweights of this industry, and doing so very, very well. You can head to their webpage for technical information, firmware information, bug fix information, etc. Not only is it sent to customers, it's posted for the world to read.

This isn't the 1980s, and this isn't IBM vs Apple. We live in an era of the informed customer. I put in a request for purchase of a Nanoflash on the answer I got in an internet forum from the Convergent Design team that they were WORKING on implementing a feature I needed. Based on their track record, I fully expect that feature to be available, and work. But that's what happens when you build an open and honest rapport with your customer base, and prospective customer base. You trust them with information, and they trust you to do what you say.

How many people are purchasing Canon 5Ds because Canon promised MONTHS ago that they WOULD release a 24p update to the camera? No timetable was given beyond first half of 2010. And people are snatching them up. Customer loyalty, company honesty. They go hand in hand.

"Cliff, I think you're dead wrong with the notion that SCS should be tight lipped."

______________________________________________________________

I'm sorry, but concrete, rock solid, Gestapo-style, water tight information "lock down" has been the essence of this company for years.

Imagine this scenario; The user base hears an unofficial "rumor" about Vegas 9d having 21/24 mbps AVCHD rendering,....weeks before 9d comes out at NAB!!!!!!!!!

How devastating would that be to the revised product? Horrible! I shudder to think! [cringe]

People, the element of SURPRISE is key!....and that must NOT be compromised at all cost by anyone at SCS.

I believe that if any developer in the SCS office is caught talking to an unauthorized coworker about about a future 9d bug fix at the water cooler,...needs to be fired.

I sincerely don't want to damage the product with my rumor here,...but I heard from a high up source in SCS that the 9d help file is being modified as we speak. 9c had an embarrassing type-o in it.

Shhh,...I dont want to get him fired for talking about it. (sorry man,...I HAD to post that)

CT ; - )

Ah, I see your wink. I get it now, your posts are just being facetious. Very clever. Carry on.

There are more than one post to respond to. So let me make it general.

The answer that SCS gives ("we're aware of this issue and working on a fix") is a common response, especially from well established companies. Obviously, these companies have decided that this quick and clean, (acknowledge - disengage - back to work on the fix) approach is the best strategy when it comes to dealing with bugs.

If one wants to change their minds and convince them to publish comprehensive lists of bugs with fixing dates, my privious suggestion still stands: If anyone is aware of any company publishing a comprehensive list of bugs with a timetable to fix them, send it to Sony. None of the examples given above meets the criteria.

Also if anyone has experience/expertise in running a customer services department, a marketing strategy department, or a PR team of a company, put that down on the the header or first sentence. This will let them know that yours are not unsubstantiated opinions from yet another customer who thinks s/he can run the company better.

No more posts from me on this thread. I joined in because I thought the response to an innocent magazine article was a little off. I was hoping to help keep it down somewhat given what happened recently.

Here's something we all have in common: let's hope 9d is coming soon.

CLIFF has to be pulling our leg.

"Complete stealth and TOTAL communications secrecy is extremely vital to SCS's survival!"

Let me get this straight - you're saying "When a "surprise" fix is finally announced...Adobe Execs and coders freak out in shock,...they then scramble and fumble around in total confusion........"

All this in response to a fix by a company in "survival" mode?


JJM