I agree with Jay. We need this forum above all else.

Erik

Ditto that ...
I'd like to see the 'Ignore User' option reinstated.
Tom

I'd gladly take the "Ignore User" option before the release of Pro 9.0d

Mike

i'd also like to see more of the manager involved in the forum. Even it's not for tech support, but just for talking about stuff we're doing & what not.

EDIT: some members being moderators would be nice too, to prune stuff like what's happened before there's a billion post thread about it. :)

But I got the "if you don't behave right NOW we're turning this car around!" vibe from the sticky. :D

"But I got the "if you don't behave right NOW we're turning this car around!" vibe from the sticky."

LOL -- Been there--on boths ends!

This IS a very important forum. NLE is not always as easy as some think and
is refreshing to hear how others have improved workflow, created attention getting
graphics, and improved raw material through the various plug-ins.

I have always been happy with my decision to use Vegas.

1. Treat people with respect and dignity.
2. If someone posts something out in the great blue yonder, ignore it.

Amen to that.

I think the same rule applies to this forum as to life generally.

If you feel angry, first look inwards and find out why you feel that way before you look outwards and blame someone else.

I sincerely value this Forum.

Peter

The intentions of the moderator are clear enough, but oversimplifying the situation is not going to make it go away. Witness the collateral effects of suspending two people who have far different reasons for being here.

-- Newbies come in two flavors; those seeking assistance and those seeking attention. There really isn't much in between. Those of us who don't wish to deal with the latter should be afforded the "Ignore user" option, period.

-- The established user base on this forum has no investment in newbie-bashing, as far as I can tell. That seems more prevalent over on the Movie Studio forum, but yet I've seen no moderator intervention or stickies there, despite the ravings, name-calling, and "you stupid so-and-so" responses by a couple of wannabe "experts." In fact, one recent recalcitrant arrival here was even embraced, forgiven, and nurtured in the beginning, IIRC.

-- I tknow many people here agree with Forum Admin that self-moderation is preferable to under-moderation (D9) or over-moderation (dvi).
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=697416
However, when someone turns a bull loose at a tent party, well, someone needs to do something. And it should have been done before one of the faithful became a casualty.

The truth of the matter is, no one individual, no matter how faithful or the level of contribution, is above "the law." What applies to one has to apply to all, regardless.

We members have a very simple choice. Live by the rules and keep the forum or ignore the rules and lose the forum. It is that simple.

Since most people get suspended due to complaints, maybe its best to file a complaint before taking it out on the forum poster.

Rob

I seem to recall the Golden Rule from days past. . .

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you . . .

The medium has changed dramatically with the advent of the Internet. . .
I do think the Rule still applies, no?
(sigh)
* * *
I do appreciate the willingness of Sony to host such a wonderful avenue for Sony experts and professional users (many of you users) to communicate so openly with their novice counterparts (the rest of us) on such a vast array of issues ...

Please continue the policy of time out and never seriously consider a close out . . .

Until that time. . . Earl J.

While I generally avoid getting involved in the moderator issues (although I am a moderator for a different forum elsewhere), I do believe in the moderation - I may not always agree with the moderator (somewhere we need common sense here), witness what has happened to the public unmoderated forums such as rec.video.desktop - or the cdr newsgroups - they are totally flattened by a small number of individuals that simply want to control what they feel is their personal sandbox. Witness the popularity of the "flame groups" (are they still around? - I never go there). Some moderators are totally off the wall, but in general, these forums have been very good and based on the information here, I have purchased a number of Sony software packages (I moved from the old Media Studio Pro from Ulead into the Sony stuff based on this forum and have purchased a number of other things also based on feedback from these forums so they are good for Sony). While I do agree it would be nice to get a bit of feedback from Sony on where things are going, if you want BAD support, try Ulead (who is now part of Corel - I got better support from a pet rock (and yes, I jumped through their hoops with serial numbers etc. ).

Just my $0.02
mikey

As the administrator for two forums that have been online for more than a decade (Cinematography.com and SteadicamForum.com) I understand the frustrations the SCS manager is facing. It seems he's been tasked with overseeing this forum in addition to his many other managerial responsibilities.

In my experience, an admin cannot simplify an online forum's rules and guidelines in two short sentences. A document with clearly written, thought-out rules is necessary. Managing a popular forum, especially one that represents an entity as large as Sony, should be the responsibility of a team of participants who are capable of watching over the venue around the clock.

A good place to start would be to require forum users to use their real names, including the Sony admins. This makes people think twice before speaking inappropriately behind an anonymous user name. Sure, anyone can fake a name that sounds legitimate, but those accounts can be deleted once they are exposed. A real name requirement is not a solution, but it helps a lot.

Additionally, as Sony includes a link to this forum in their site's Support menu, they should commit to actually providing some support here. If they can't or won't do that, they should make it clear that this is a peer-to-peer forum without Sony participation.

I can see SCS's point, but you know what is sad about this, is that the SCS forums have a relatively high level of politeness and decorum. Most Internet forums, unless very heavily moderated, are more like a bar room at 2 AM, than a literary forum. Unfortunately, there's always a few users, who use anonymity as a cover for their rudeness and disrespect.

From his first post, BudWzr reminded me of a previous poster, who just loved to tangle with people for no particular reason. I figured that it was inevitable that eventually, some long-time user would be drawn into an end game with him and I just hoped that it wasn't me. So I just avoided him. But where was the Ignore User feature, when we needed it?

I'm sorry that the person who was finally entrapped, was John Cline. He is one of the eight or ten people on this forum that are consistently helpful (The rest of you know who you are!). John even helped me offline with a problem that I had when I first got my BMD Intensity Card. He and Avery Lee (VDub) finally figured out that Vegas as having a problem with the BMD MJPEG codec, a problem that SCS fixed.

Let's hope they let John back soon and they maintain the forums for our continued use.

"... an admin cannot simplify an online forum's rules and guidelines in two short sentences. A document with clearly written, thought-out rules is necessary."

They have that, Tim. It's in their Terms of Service (see "Section M") and everything is clearly set forth.

Holy cow, you're right. Too bad I need an attorney to translate for me. ;)

The sticky is straight to the point.
I cannot understand why anyone needs a piece of software to help them "Ignore" someone.
Anyone working in this game has almost certainly had to endure something they find offensive. Be it content or a director :)
No one will ever be harmed by reading words here, no need for a lynch mob or self appointed hall monitors. Inevitably that's just more fuel to the fire. Simply ignoring the brawl will make it go away. Attention seekers want attention, ignoring them is the only viable response.

As implied in the sticky, if Sony HQ feel what goes on here is casting the brand in a bad light it will be gone. This is probably not a matter the SCS management has any control over.

Bob.

sorry to disagree, the but sticky reads too much like a threat. Sounds like Sony is taking a page out of Toyota's playbook. (I am not disagreeing with suspending someone who engages in personal attacks, no matter who they are).

What the post really sounds like, is if forum members continue to complain about the way SCS communicates with it's user base, they will take some sort of negative action. Because THAT is the single biggest complaint the customer base has.

Yes we should be respectful and cordial with each other. Most are. As paying customers, we also have the right to complain.

Curiosity gets the better of me if I see an interesting thread started by someone I'd rather ignore. It's easier if I never see the thread in the first place.

Anyway, Ignore User didn't work that way. If someone you were ignoring started a thread you'd see it as soon as someone else responded.

Rob

Indeed. An 'ignore' feature is elementary to any basic forum. But what do you expect, when we still have to go the long route just to italicize something?

rs170a:
I love the monkeys.
JJK